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By that standard, then, would you say there is any use to existing heritage laws at all?

No, a lot of buildings are worth preserving. Parliament, for instance, is worth preserving. When we are short on funds to restore that, restoring a rail shed you can't even recognize (with all of you're "professional consensus") is a waste of money and distracting us from places that actually do deserve restoration and preservation.

As for CCW, it is doesn't matter who designed it. Any architect is subservient to his client, if the client wants garbage the architect will deliver garbage. It shouldn't be preserved lest we turn our downtown into a museum of the 1970s.

And, what the hey, for the 12th time now: why the hell does the Biggar Roundhouse deserve to be preserved? If you are going to through out "cultural heritage", at least try to explain why a rail shed is more culturally significant than a parking garage.
 
Here's your answer about the Biggar roundhouse: I'd base my judgement on research, on visiting the site, on the prospects for the building being used, on its history. In other words, I would make more than a snap decision based on a single small and blurry photo. I don't know a damn thing about the roundhouse and neither do you.
 
I don't know a damn thing about the roundhouse and neither do you.

But you see, that's Whoaccio's justification. Why preserve something we don't know a damn thing about? As opposed to Parliament, which we *all* know a damn thing about; or at least, it "speaks for itself".

And I'd seriously like to know how CCW qualifies as "garbage", i.e. explain, Whoaccio.

50_320.jpg


I doubt she, among others, would agree.
 
Incidentally, from the Inventory of Heritage Properties...

199 BAY ST
Commerce Court, 1968-72; I.M. Pei and Associations with Page and Steele, architects; V.K. Mason and Peter Kiewit Sons Company of Canada Limited, contractors/builders, (please see 25 King Street West for further information) DESIGNATION By-Law passed by City Council on August 12, 1991 Repealing By-Law No. 539-91 passed by City Council on September 16, 1991 (repealing by-law changes the last sentence of Schedule B of By-Law No. 467-91)

So, it wasn't just listed, it was *designated*--as far back as 1991! That is, almost half its lifetime ago; it had to be judged pretty significant in its own right, and not just as an add-on to the old Bank of Commerce building, to merit designation so soon. So, garbage, schmarbage. Didn't prevent subsequent Zeidler "decon" additions/alterations, though; but, still...
 
Then, I want you to explain why we should or shouldn't preserve (say) the Power Center at Laird and Eglinton.

when and if power centres become obsolete or the lifestyle which they represent becomes incidental to the mass of society, then a few of them SHOULD be preserved.
i expect roundhouses are not a dime a dozen these days. and i am sure there used to be scads of them.
there's always the lessons of penn station. people actually believed that - since rail travel was seen to be obsolete - then the building needed to be torn down.
as for airport architecture, i think it's one of the greatest preservation tragedies that some of these buildings were not saved.
reagan national has a very efficient modern airport and still maintains their 40s era building to the south.
and there are a few of the 50s/60s strip malls that deserve to be preserved just as they are. there's one in scarborough on KR.
too bad shoppers has put their own ugly stamp on it.
what seems to be driving whoaccio crazy is that he's stuck in an endless relativist loop and once that happens, there's no making sense of anything.
he needs to calm down and come to grips with the fact that some things are nicer than others and better than others and more worthy than others.
and who decides this? with luck, there's a consensus.
a roundhouse...at this point in time...is more worthy of our interest than a power centre.
when we're down to half a dozen power centres, let's talk about preservation.
 
when and if power centres become obsolete or the lifestyle which they represent becomes incidental to the mass of society, then a few of them SHOULD be preserved.

Are you serious?

i expect roundhouses are not a dime a dozen these days. and i am sure there used to be scads of them. there's always the lessons of penn station. people actually believed that - since rail travel was seen to be obsolete - then the building needed to be torn down.

Comparing Penn Station to a roundhouse is a bit of an apples/oranges comparison. A better comparison would be to a LIRR shed in Queen's. These buildings aren't meant to be significant, culturally or aesthetically, they are utilitarian and meant to be replaced once they can't perform a function. To run with you're airport example, the roundhouse would have more in common with a hangar than a terminal building. I have yet to see the heritage preservation crowd going ga-ga over those, and I don't expect them to. (who would?)

what seems to be driving whoaccio crazy is that he's stuck in an endless relativist loop and once that happens, there's no making sense of anything. he needs to calm down and come to grips with the fact that some things are nicer than others and better than others and more worthy than others. and who decides this? with luck, there's a consensus.
a roundhouse...at this point in time...is more worthy of our interest than a power centre.
when we're down to half a dozen power centres, let's talk about preservation.

I agree, some thing are better than others. I've never suggested otherwise. More so than a dilapidated roundhouse, Parliament is worth preserving. Union station is worth preserving and rehabilitating. That is the reason why "professional consensus" has decided it isn't worth preservation. The roundhouse is, as of yet, not a registered heritage building. Aside from a bill table in the HoC, nobody cares about it and no heritage committee task force has deemed it worthy of preservation. And why should it be? There are a lot of items that deserve more attention. That is my point. Yet heritage fetishists take this as an admission that I want to level all buildings in Toronto. Not everything can or should be preserved.
 
To run with you're airport example, the roundhouse would have more in common with a hangar than a terminal building. I have yet to see the heritage preservation crowd going ga-ga over those, and I don't expect them to. (who would?)

You'd be surprised...things like this, or this, or this, or--closer to home--a lot of the nucleus of Downsview Park. Not to mention the fact that there was a genuine fuss--where even Heritage Mississauga was on-side--over the recent demolition of the A. V. Roe plant in Malton.

And, looky here among the National Trust for Historic Preservation's 2008 America's Eleven Most Endangered--Hangar One, Moffett Field.

The reason why you have "yet to see", is that, as you've repeatedly demonstrated, the reality of the "heritage preservation crowd" is totally alien to you. You see, it's one thing to argue against the value of hangars. It's another thing to claim the "heritage preservation crowd" is not interested in hangars. It's the different between personal value judgment and abject ignorance. And there's nothing like the latter to undermine the former.

As a localized ignorance-breaker, my suggestion to you, Whoaccio, is to subscribe to this. And scan the newsletter archive to get an idea of things, too.

That is the reason why "professional consensus" has decided it isn't worth preservation. The roundhouse is, as of yet, not a registered heritage building. Aside from a bill table in the HoC, nobody cares about it and no heritage committee task force has deemed it worthy of preservation. And why should it be?

Don't mistake heritage bureaucracy and various political go-arounds for "professional consensus". And remember that Riverdale Hospital, which you happen to have deemed worthy of interest, is not presently a "registered heritage building", either--indeed, that's a huge part of the controversy--but as you've seen, it's far from a "nobody cares about it" case, either.

That said, I agree that there is a naivety about lawsond's logic; but all things considered, it's forgiveable, and probably *does* hint as to where the "heritage awareness" grassroots thing is going in the long term. (I'm reserving judgment on power centres; but when it comes to classic Scarberian strip malls, the affection and motivation is already there, at least in utero. And remember: it's a more complex thing than slapping on a heritage designation and ordering the joint to be frozen in amber. More like, planting seeds to love what one has.)

As a reminder of the fallacy of "nobody cares about it" logic, bear in mind that Margie Zeidler's 401 Richmond complex wasn't even listed, let along designated, until 2007!

More so than a dilapidated roundhouse, Parliament is worth preserving. Union station is worth preserving and rehabilitating.

Well, if it's all about simplistic sliding scales of worth, duh. But if either of the latter two are in decrepit suspended animation, blame the imponderables of bureaucracy and politics, don't blame the heritage community for fiddling with decrepit roundhouses while Rome is burning. And of course, nobody in the pro-Riverdale Hospital camp was claiming that it was a holus bolus worthier piece of heritage than Don Jail, or that the latter should be ignored on behalf of the former. It was more of a mutually beneficial "both-and" argument.

And of course, re Union Station, there's debate over how much merits preservation/rehabilitation (think Bush Sheds).

Meanwhile, if you really want to ramp up the argument, Parliament and Union Station are less, uh, "worthy" than this...
 
Incidentally, re decrepit old hangars and stuff, if any of you are headed out to Prince Edward County for the wine circuit or whatever, this is absolutely worth visiting...
 
The landscape of faux rocks at Adventure Island in Ontario Place ought to be listed or designated as heritage surely? Not because they are there but because they're without doubt the best faux rocks in town.

I wonder who designed them?
 
Rule of thumb re Ontario Place: the less it has to do with Michael Hough, the lower in pecking order it lies...

That said, it *is* regrettable that the original core of Children's Village has been eviscerated.
 

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