[txlseries4]

It's also telling the city has never looked into ridership on rainy days despite there being over 100 rainy days a year!

That's just blatantly not true. Traffic volumes are measured throughout the year and capture the number of cars, bicycles, and people walking through intersections. It captures data between 7:30-18:00 (the site says tech is updating to extend this window) and there's data going back to the mid 80's, available here: https://open.toronto.ca/dataset/traffic-volumes-at-intersections-for-all-modes/

The city already mentions 20% usage through the winter, why would they further highlight days or conditions where cycling is low when their goal is to get people out of their cars for short trips and walking or cycling instead? We don't see anyone in favour of driving also highlighting the insane amount of collisions per year, or particularly when it's dark, raining, or snowing, and that is a far more consequential... (from TPS data, 2015-2019 avg 74,645. 2023 total 67,524 up from 59,172 in 2022).

I realize not everyone has the skills to filter through the data but not only is is free and online, but fairly trivial to compare traffic volume data against weather data.

Since 2015 until Nov 13 2024 (latest entry) there have been 10,062 traffic volume measurements taken on 1,219 different days (out of 3604).

2816 happened on days with >= 1mm of precipitation. 2405 of those with >= 1mm rain, 556 with >= 1mm of snow. Bringing up the threshold, 1312 were on days with >= 5mm of rain.

obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/386/

 

[nfitz]

It's also telling the city has never looked into ridership on rainy days despite there being over 100 rainy days a year!

Ignoring the blatant mistruth of the city not looking into ridership on rainy days (which txlseries4 addresses below)- rainy days does not mean raining when cycling. Most days the rainfall is trivial, not noticeable, brief, or in the middle of the night. There's only a few spring/summer/fall days when it's really rainy. And personally when I had to rely on a bike, I certainly didn't walk on even the worst rainy days!

I'm not sure why people fall for this anti-bike rhetoric, which even is blatantly obvious to car-drivers like me.

 

[txlseries4]

Ignoring the blatant mistruth of the city not looking into ridership on rainy days (which txlseries4 addresses below)- rainy days does not mean raining when cycling. Most days the rainfall is trivial, not noticeable, brief, or in the middle of the night. There's only a few spring/summer/fall days when it's really rainy. And personally when I had to rely on a bike, I certainly didn't walk on even the worst rainy days!

I'm not sure why people fall for this anti-bike rhetoric, which even is blatantly obvious to car-drivers like me.

By coincidence two of the rainiest days we had this year coincided with times the city was measuring traffic volumes and despite the huge rainfall still saw lots of people cycling and walking at these intersections:

|Count Date|Location                             |Bicycles|Walking|Rain |
|----------|-------------------------------------|--------|-------|-----|
|2024-08-17|FREELAND ST AT QUEENS QUAY E         |1,815   |4,771  |128.3|
|2024-06-20|ADELAIDE ST W AT BATHURST ST         |1,722   |2,506  |50.8 |
|2024-06-20|KING ST W AT UNIVERSITY AVE          |2,097   |20,172 |50.8 |
|2024-06-20|RICHMOND ST AT UNIVERSITY AVE (PX 79)|2,978   |12,377 |50.8 |
|2024-06-20|ADELAIDE ST AT SPADINA AVE (PX 274)  |2,786   |10,790 |50.8 |

 

[turbanplanner]

I don't think quoting turbanplanner on bike issues does much to boost one's case! How many times has he been censured for anti-bike trolling?

I’m still pretty disappointed I’m being called a troll despite the fact I’ve done some first hand research and posted numbers and have pointed out the city has no consistency in bike infrastructure (ex, not protecting 15 year old lanes that connect directly to bloor)

Regardless of people’s opinions about ANYONE, I feel it’s important to track the point not the poster. That’s why I linked the city website

 

[turbanplanner]

Ignoring the blatant mistruth of the city not looking into ridership on rainy days (which txlseries4 addresses below)- rainy days does not mean raining when cycling. Most days the rainfall is trivial, not noticeable, brief, or in the middle of the night. There's only a few spring/summer/fall days when it's really rainy. And personally when I had to rely on a bike, I certainly didn't walk on even the worst rainy days!

I'm not sure why people fall for this anti-bike rhetoric, which even is blatantly obvious to car-drivers like me.

That's just blatantly not true. Traffic volumes are measured throughout the year and capture the number of cars, bicycles, and people walking through intersections. It captures data between 7:30-18:00 (the site says tech is updating to extend this window) and there's data going back to the mid 80's, available here: https://open.toronto.ca/dataset/traffic-volumes-at-intersections-for-all-modes/

The city already mentions 20% usage through the winter, why would they further highlight days or conditions where cycling is low when their goal is to get people out of their cars for short trips and walking or cycling instead? We don't see anyone in favour of driving also highlighting the insane amount of collisions per year, or particularly when it's dark, raining, or snowing, and that is a far more consequential... (from TPS data, 2015-2019 avg 74,645. 2023 total 67,524 up from 59,172 in 2022).

I realize not everyone has the skills to filter through the data but not only is is free and online, but fairly trivial to compare traffic volume data against weather data.

Since 2015 until Nov 13 2024 (latest entry) there have been 10,062 traffic volume measurements taken on 1,219 different days (out of 3604).

2816 happened on days with >= 1mm of precipitation. 2405 of those with >= 1mm rain, 556 with >= 1mm of snow. Bringing up the threshold, 1312 were on days with >= 5mm of rain.

obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/386/

Thanks for linking the data! My concern was that for the bloor study I didn’t notice any sort of attention paid to factors like weather and there were not any follow up measuring periods scheduled after October, and I could be wrong but there weren’t any scheduled for July or August, two notoriously hot months.

 

[txlseries4]

Thanks for posting this! I was mostly noting that the city doesn’t seem to account for weather in the bike lane study PDF’s!

There's a lot of data they don't include and I think it can be chalked up to trying to condense it down (K.I.S.S) for an audience who probably isn't interested in the nitty gritty since for those who want it, much of the data is out there to analyze.

To give you an idea, here's one row (represents a 15 minute period) from the traffic volume data I mentioned, which I doubt is the only source for the city's numbers on cycling

|_id    |count_id|count_date|location_id|location                         |lng           |lat          |centreline_type|centreline_id|px |time_start         |time_end           |sb_cars_r|sb_cars_t|sb_cars_l|nb_cars_r|nb_cars_t|nb_cars_l|wb_cars_r|wb_cars_t|wb_cars_l|eb_cars_r|eb_cars_t|eb_cars_l|sb_truck_r|sb_truck_t|sb_truck_l|nb_truck_r|nb_truck_t|nb_truck_l|wb_truck_r|wb_truck_t|wb_truck_l|eb_truck_r|eb_truck_t|eb_truck_l|sb_bus_r|sb_bus_t|sb_bus_l|nb_bus_r|nb_bus_t|nb_bus_l|wb_bus_r|wb_bus_t|wb_bus_l|eb_bus_r|eb_bus_t|eb_bus_l|nx_peds|sx_peds|ex_peds|wx_peds|nx_bike|sx_bike|ex_bike|wx_bike|nx_other|sx_other|ex_other|wx_other|avg_temp|
|-------|--------|----------|-----------|---------------------------------|--------------|-------------|---------------|-------------|---|-------------------|-------------------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|
|198,806|101,635 |2024-11-07|4,894      |BLOOR ST AT ST GEORGE ST (PX 271)|-79.3998364772|43.6675168721|2              |13,463,947   |271|2024-11-07T13:00:00|2024-11-07T13:15:00|5        |20       |6        |19       |25       |4        |12       |78       |2        |9        |81       |0        |1         |0         |0         |0         |0         |0         |0         |5         |0         |0         |2         |0         |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |1       |0       |0       |307    |225    |404    |181    |16     |24     |57     |30     |0       |0       |0       |0       |        |

 

[nfitz]

I’m still pretty disappointed I’m being called a troll ...

Angling, fishing, and trolling are synonyms. If one is angling, one is not a fish. If one is fishing, one is not a fish. I don't see the point of coming here, and making claims about cycling in the rain that turn out to be the opposite. Meanwhile, this is used as evidence of others in anti-cycling posts.

Much of the issue is the shear number of anti-cycling posts made - many in a day. With no attempt to put multiple replies in a single post.

I realize not everyone has the skills to filter through the data but not only is is free and online, but fairly trivial to compare traffic volume data against weather data.

Or personally, the inclination, when the arguments against it are clearly fishy (100 days of rain a year that would stop cycling). Thanks for going through the data.

 

[turbanplanner]

Angling, fishing, and trolling are synonyms. If one is angling, one is not a fish. If one is fishing, one is not a fish. I don't see the point of coming here, and making claims about cycling in the rain that turn out to be the opposite. Meanwhile, this is used as evidence of others in anti-cycling posts.

Much of the issue is the shear number of anti-cycling posts made - many in a day. With no attempt to put multiple replies in a single post.

Or personally, the inclination, when the arguments against it are clearly fishy (100 days of rain a year that would stop cycling). Thanks for going through the data.

Sorry I usually post on mobile so it's hard to format things well.

There's a lot of data they don't include and I think it can be chalked up to trying to condense it down (K.I.S.S) for an audience who probably isn't interested in the nitty gritty since for those who want it, much of the data is out there to analyze.

To give you an idea, here's one row (represents a 15 minute period) from the traffic volume data I mentioned, which I doubt is the only source for the city's numbers on cycling

|_id    |count_id|count_date|location_id|location                         |lng           |lat          |centreline_type|centreline_id|px |time_start         |time_end           |sb_cars_r|sb_cars_t|sb_cars_l|nb_cars_r|nb_cars_t|nb_cars_l|wb_cars_r|wb_cars_t|wb_cars_l|eb_cars_r|eb_cars_t|eb_cars_l|sb_truck_r|sb_truck_t|sb_truck_l|nb_truck_r|nb_truck_t|nb_truck_l|wb_truck_r|wb_truck_t|wb_truck_l|eb_truck_r|eb_truck_t|eb_truck_l|sb_bus_r|sb_bus_t|sb_bus_l|nb_bus_r|nb_bus_t|nb_bus_l|wb_bus_r|wb_bus_t|wb_bus_l|eb_bus_r|eb_bus_t|eb_bus_l|nx_peds|sx_peds|ex_peds|wx_peds|nx_bike|sx_bike|ex_bike|wx_bike|nx_other|sx_other|ex_other|wx_other|avg_temp|
|-------|--------|----------|-----------|---------------------------------|--------------|-------------|---------------|-------------|---|-------------------|-------------------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|
|198,806|101,635 |2024-11-07|4,894      |BLOOR ST AT ST GEORGE ST (PX 271)|-79.3998364772|43.6675168721|2              |13,463,947   |271|2024-11-07T13:00:00|2024-11-07T13:15:00|5        |20       |6        |19       |25       |4        |12       |78       |2        |9        |81       |0        |1         |0         |0         |0         |0         |0         |0         |5         |0         |0         |2         |0         |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |0       |1       |0       |0       |307    |225    |404    |181    |16     |24     |57     |30     |0       |0       |0       |0       |        |

Thanks again! I remember the bloor report was 50+pages, I glanced through it again and yeah for a powerpoint KISS does make sense!

 

[enter username]

A subway driver this morning announced the train wouldn’t move until an e-bike got off. Since the new ban is actually being enforced, I think the city should expand secured indoor bike parking so riders can leave their bikes closer to work. Does anyone know if there are plans to do so?

 

[Northern Light]

A subway driver this morning announced the train wouldn’t move until an e-bike got off. Since the new ban is actually being enforced, I think the city should expand secured indoor bike parking so riders can leave their bikes closer to work. Does anyone know if there are plans to do so?

There is no new short-term strategy of which I am aware.

In the medium/long-term, all new subway stations (Ontario Line, SSE etc) will have secure bicycle parking in their design.

But I haven't heard anything about retrofits to existing stations.

Its something I will look for when the budget comes out.

****

Apart from TTC/GO I'm also unware of any expansion plans for secure bike parking, but another UT member did something on this file, last summer to try and give things a lift.

 

[Admiral Beez]

A subway driver this morning announced the train wouldn’t move until an e-bike got off.

My hero! Keeping staff and passengers safe. Though our scofflaw likely just got on the next train.

Since the new ban is actually being enforced, I think the city should expand secured indoor bike parking so riders can leave their bikes closer to work

Wouldn't indoor bike parking be equally at risk for battery fires? Until Canada, in likely partnership with the USA ensures that all ebike batteries imported to Canada are CSA/UL/ETL certified I don't want ebikes stored indoors - though do what you want in your own property - accepting liability for any neighbours or family you put at risk.

Just ride a regular bicycle like humanity has been doing since the Victorian age.

 

[T3G]

Just ride a regular bicycle like humanity has been doing since the Victorian age.

Burying our heads in the sand and hoping a problem goes away doesn't strike me as being a particularly helpful line of argument. You personally may not feel the need to utilize an e-bike, but many people, clearly, do, and an argument like this isn't going to get them to give them up. What if we tried as a city reckoning with the fact that there are new technologies out there and pushing for them to be made safe, rather than channeling our Puritan ancestors and trying to ban them? E-bikes and scooters are not going anywhere. Period. End of sentence. Either we can try to live with them, or we can take our pitchforks and torches to them, and we all know how successful that has been, ever, at suppressing new tech and ideas.

I bet you wouldn't have been incredibly enthusiastic about the smoke-filled stations and carriages that were the hallmarks of the early London underground lines, now would you? Or would you have told users of the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 that they should just go back to writing letters?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Burying our heads in the sand and hoping a problem goes away doesn't strike me as being a particularly helpful line of argument.

Agreed. Rather than ignoring the issue, our government should take action to ensure that e-bike batteries are CSA/UL/ETL certified. Canadians would be surprised to learn that current legislation does not require battery importers to ensure their products are certified. Let's start with that, by telling Amazon Canada that they must only sell ebike batteries that are safety certified at their peril otherwise.

 

[turbanplanner]

Agreed. Rather than ignoring the issue, our government should take action to ensure that e-bike batteries are CSA/UL/ETL certified. Canadians would be surprised to learn that current legislation does not require battery importers to ensure their products are certified. Let's start with that, by telling Amazon Canada that they must only sell ebike batteries that are safety certified at their peril otherwise.

To be fair you can buy fake UL stickers on aliexpress but I feel like more enforcement of *ALL* the rules will fix 99% of the issues we have on a daily basis

 

[Admiral Beez]

To be fair you can buy fake UL stickers on aliexpress but I feel like more enforcement of *ALL* the rules will fix 99% of the issues we have on a daily basis

You can buy fake packaging for anything - that’s no excuse for inaction. But we can’t enforce rules until we have them.