[jmi22]

Yeah, but buses also run frequently on perpendicular routes such as Victoria Park, Warden, Birchmount, and traffic also needs to get through. The best thing would have been to build this thing underground or elevated since most of it was done like that already, we could have even automated the entire operation of it to save operational costs, but no, why use common sense.

Somehow every other city on planet earth that runs trams with signal priority have figured this out. This is unashamed, rank incompetence and political cowardice in an election year, don't let them misled you into thinking this is a "technical" matter.

Agree it should have been 100% grade separated from day 1.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The Finch West lrt should have been built with stations that were grade separated at major intersections such as Albion, Kipling, Islington, Weston, Jane. The curve between Humber college station and Westmore should have been built with a more gentle curve allowing for faster speeds, plus removing stations at Stevenson, Duncanwoods, Driftwood to allow for better spacing. All those changes would probably allow the line to run smoother and feel more like a light metro. The whole line feels like it was designed without the end user in mind. Its a mess.

The maximum curve radius for the Flexity Freedom light rail vehicle is 26m. The maximum curve radius for the Citadis Spirit light rail vehicle is 25m. In theory, on paper.

Tightest TTC streetcar curve is 11.3m. The Flexity Outlook streetcars are "designed" for a minimum radius of 10.973 metres.

 

[turbanplanner]

Yeah, but buses also run frequently on perpendicular routes such as Victoria Park, Warden, Birchmount, and traffic also needs to get through. The best thing would have been to build this thing underground or elevated since most of it was done like that already, we could have even automated the entire operation of it to save operational costs, but no, why use common sense.

This is a city that BOUGHT a self driving system (line 3) and then messed it up by adding human drivers

 

[T3G]

This is a city that BOUGHT a self driving system (line 3) and then messed it up by adding human drivers

That was smart of them to do. If we automate everything, how will people make a living?

It wasn't the presence of the drivers that messed the system up. It was unsuitable for the weather conditions we have here.

 

[turbanplanner]

That was smart of them to do. If we automate everything, how will people make a living?

It wasn't the presence of the drivers that messed the system up. It was unsuitable for the weather conditions we have here.

Having drivers lead to flat spots on the wheels. I think the upsides of millions of people get to work on time outweighs a few hundred jobs.

Look at how hard it is to make schedules changes for the TTC or MX? You have to wait for a new board period to make any service improvements. The Skytrain is 1000x more consistent than any TTC service, especially on weekends or late hours.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

This is a city that BOUGHT a self driving system (line 3) and then messed it up by adding human drivers

The "drivers" were there for security and information.

 

[T3G]

Having drivers lead to flat spots on the wheels. I think the upsides of millions of people get to work on time outweighs a few hundred jobs.

Look at how hard it is to make schedules changes for the TTC or MX? You have to wait for a new board period to make any service improvements. The Skytrain is 1000x more consistent than any TTC service, especially on weekends or late hours.

Flat spots are not caused by having drivers, but are a byproduct of physics. They are caused when a vehicle's wheels stop turning while the vehicle is still in motion, often thanks to emergency braking or wheel lock up caused by inclement weather conditions. How can a computer from the 1980s possibly detect what the weather is and know whether it should adjust its driving style accordingly?

What kind of problem that prevented "millions" from getting to work was caused by drivers? As well, you bring this up now as being no problem, but when everyone and their dog prioritizes efficiency over the existence of jobs, pretty soon no one will be able to pay for anything, except for the rich whose jobs of course will not be affected by automation (in the best case scenario; in the worst case their continued financial existence will be sustained by all the corporate profits that should have gone to paid employees). I am quite happy to take a minor hit in efficiency to ensure that people still have jobs, since those are getting increasingly hard to come by in our AI obsessed world. Those who are promoting automation everywhere do not have the best interests of society at heart.

 

[Westey]

The Finch West lrt should have been built with stations that were grade separated at major intersections such as Albion, Kipling, Islington, Weston, Jane. The curve between Humber college station and Westmore should have been built with a more gentle curve allowing for faster speeds, plus removing stations at Stevenson, Duncanwoods, Driftwood to allow for better spacing. All those changes would probably allow the line to run smoother and feel more like a light metro. The whole line feels like it was designed without the end user in mind. Its a mess.

I am too lazy to rename the stations. I somehow think this is not the right approach for a transit line.
(borrowed from the Eglinton East thread).

 

[zang]

That was smart of them to do. If we automate everything, how will people make a living?

We could add more humans back into the stations themselves, or reintroduce guards back on the trains. If the trains are safer and more efficient on ATC, it doesn't mean we have to reduce staffing.

 

[smallspy]

Having drivers lead to flat spots on the wheels..

I'm amused at how much faith you manage to put into technology.

Dan

 

[JasonParis]

If Line 7 is grade-separated—as it likely should be—it would have two major implications. First, the higher cost would make the project less likely to be built. Second, if Line 7 does proceed with full grade separation, it would strengthen the case for eventually rebuilding the non-grade-separated segments of Line 5.

 

[duffo]

If Line 7 is grade-separated—as it likely should be—it would have two major implications. First, the higher cost would make the project less likely to be built. Second, if Line 7 does proceed with full grade separation, it would strengthen the case for eventually rebuilding the non-grade-separated segments of Line 5

Off topic for this thread, but Line 5 can't be extended due to Line 2's extension being in the way. Doesn't matter if it's at grade or not.

I'm hoping that "Line 7" just turns into:
a) Sheppard Extension Phase 2 to Malvern along the protected SRT extension ROW
b) Upgraded BRT on the existing RapidTO Eglinton East corridor + the planned Durham Scarborough BRT between Scarborough Town Centre and UTSC

 

[JasonParis]

I never suggested a Line 5 extension, to be clear.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Even this dysfunctional city sees that non-grade separation *IS NOT* working, and they are actually listening to public sentiment.

Toronto quietly exploring major changes to planned LRT after recent failures

Metrolinx's painful rollout of the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West LRT projects has the City of Toronto rethinking its plans for another upcoming l…

www.blogto.com

Looks like the Eglinton East LRT, if it ever happens may not be at grade after all.

Thank god that Metrolinx rescued Eglinton West from the City.. who were pushing at-grade along there. Still think Metrolinx should have gone elevated there, not tunneled, but either is better than surface.

 

[zang]

So waste public taxpayer dollars on staff when you don't need them

Arguably, our stations are currently understaffed.

If you are on a train and hit the alarm strip, how long can you expect a response? It won't be the driver, as they aren't supposed to leave the cab. And because stations have so few people working at them, you're more than likely waiting for the police to arrive at a station for just any kind of emergency.

But then you both don't want to spend on grade separation when it viably improves transit and has a strong public benefit. I don't get the hypocrisy.

When staffing costs get into 10 digit numbers, you might have a point. Let me know when that happens.

You know what else has a strong public safety benefit? More staff in stations.