catcher_of_cats
Senior Member
A lot of us do not think in shades of black and white only but in grey as you can actually be pro all of the above.
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- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
‘I don’t like winning’: Toronto man outruns streetcars to show up sluggish transit network
Mac Bauer’s racing activism has made ‘signal priority’ and traffic congestion a big talking point for the Canadian cityhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2...treetcars-to-show-up-sluggish-transit-network
Dan416
Senior Member
Kinda sad that Toronto gets mentioned in the Guardian, and it's about our abysmally slow streetcars. Really, really hoping this results in true signal priority for the whole streetcar network.
Amare
Senior Member
Really love what this guy is doing, highlighting how truly embarrassing transit service is in this city by using unconventional means.
At this point, it seems the best way at getting the TTC and city to actually take things seriously and improve operations is by publicly embarrassing them and putting it on blast through social media and so that media outlets pick this up.
Great to see international outlets picking this up, so the rest of the world can see how much of a joke the state of transit operations are in this city.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
If they really cares they would have implemented it on day 1.
Diez Mil Cantos
New Member
So at risk of kicking up a hornet's nest, I'm gonna post about my experience on Line 6 today.
I wasn't able to be in Toronto for opening day, so this was the first time I got to ride it, now a month after the disaster and disappointment that lots of Torontonians experienced. That being said, I think some of the initial frustrations are starting to be addressed, and others still have a bit more work required. I had 4 drivers over the 3 vehicles I was on, so I will break it down by experience.
Total Travel Time Finch West > Humber College: 53 minutes
Total Travel Time Humber College > Finch West: 44 minutes
The outbound leg was done in 2 phases (I took a break in the middle) while the return trip in one go, so take the first number with a grain of salt.
Driver 1: Horrendously slow; I rode the 504 King during the boxing day snow storm and that felt faster. Only went as far as Tobermory, and the proceeded to wait for an operator change; more on that later.
Driver 2: Decent in terms of speed, but long dwell times at stations (30 seconds with doors open; up to 40 seconds after doors closed); also hesitant/slowed down going through the 400 underpass; I got off at Milvan/Rumike for a break
Driver 3: Fairly ok, but hampered by the signal/station design on the western portion of the line; Switched at Humber College
Driver 4: Best out of the bunch, got up to speed where possible, limited dwell time at most stations, with 2 exceptions.
Overall assessment of Operators: They are still getting using to the system, and there is a high level of caution in operation, which I think will improve as experience level goes up; There are also some bad habits taken from the Downtown streetcars, that need to be removed.
There were 10 times we stopped for traffic lights on both the inbound trip and outbound trip; half of those lights could have been avoided if TSP extended the light. The remainder could have been reduced by allowing the Tram to go ahead of left turning traffic. The amount of delays caused by Signal and dwell time delays: 12 -13 minutes in both directions.
The train I was on that had the driver change waited at Tobermory for 5 minutes (which explains the longer outbound run time), also had other TTC personnel onboard having their own conversation behind me; One openly asked why the train was held for so long, and the other personnel were explaining how the operator change was timed so that the train going in the other direction would arrive at the same time (due to delays it did not), and seemed a bit resigned to "C'est la vie, chez TTC" attitude. So the operators are also aware that it is an issue, but that change has to come from levels above them.
Given what I observed, the service issues are fixable, and can be remedied by the following:
1) TSP, both for holding/speeding up transit signal and by letting trains go first, the cars can wait
2) Extending the transit signal: Currently the TS turns yellow 10 seconds before the end of the pedestrian signal; shorten that either to 5 seconds or exactly the same as the Car Lights
3) Shorten up station dwell times, which is already trending in the right direction
4) Increase speed limits on the crossovers and the Hwy 27 curve to 15 km/h or 20km/h, holy crap those trains can handle more than 10km/h (GAAAAHHH!)
5) 5 or 6 minute Sevice all day to avoid people waiting too long in the minimalist station shelters
AND NOW, the positives:
Very comfy ride, no bumps or jolts (as someone who gets carsick easy, this is the reason I'll pick tram over bus anyday)
When moving at speed can keep up with traffic
Helped improve access to shops and restaurants I would otherwise not go to.
Good public washrooms at either end of the line
Next train announcement boards better than subway ones (no cp24 clutter)
Overall I am glad that the outrage that the rollout of this line caused means that their is now political incentive to make changes across the transit system, and I hope by summer time that Line 6 is down to 35-36 minutes end to end.
I wasn't able to be in Toronto for opening day, so this was the first time I got to ride it, now a month after the disaster and disappointment that lots of Torontonians experienced. That being said, I think some of the initial frustrations are starting to be addressed, and others still have a bit more work required. I had 4 drivers over the 3 vehicles I was on, so I will break it down by experience.
Total Travel Time Finch West > Humber College: 53 minutes
Total Travel Time Humber College > Finch West: 44 minutes
The outbound leg was done in 2 phases (I took a break in the middle) while the return trip in one go, so take the first number with a grain of salt.
Driver 1: Horrendously slow; I rode the 504 King during the boxing day snow storm and that felt faster. Only went as far as Tobermory, and the proceeded to wait for an operator change; more on that later.
Driver 2: Decent in terms of speed, but long dwell times at stations (30 seconds with doors open; up to 40 seconds after doors closed); also hesitant/slowed down going through the 400 underpass; I got off at Milvan/Rumike for a break
Driver 3: Fairly ok, but hampered by the signal/station design on the western portion of the line; Switched at Humber College
Driver 4: Best out of the bunch, got up to speed where possible, limited dwell time at most stations, with 2 exceptions.
Overall assessment of Operators: They are still getting using to the system, and there is a high level of caution in operation, which I think will improve as experience level goes up; There are also some bad habits taken from the Downtown streetcars, that need to be removed.
There were 10 times we stopped for traffic lights on both the inbound trip and outbound trip; half of those lights could have been avoided if TSP extended the light. The remainder could have been reduced by allowing the Tram to go ahead of left turning traffic. The amount of delays caused by Signal and dwell time delays: 12 -13 minutes in both directions.
The train I was on that had the driver change waited at Tobermory for 5 minutes (which explains the longer outbound run time), also had other TTC personnel onboard having their own conversation behind me; One openly asked why the train was held for so long, and the other personnel were explaining how the operator change was timed so that the train going in the other direction would arrive at the same time (due to delays it did not), and seemed a bit resigned to "C'est la vie, chez TTC" attitude. So the operators are also aware that it is an issue, but that change has to come from levels above them.
Given what I observed, the service issues are fixable, and can be remedied by the following:
1) TSP, both for holding/speeding up transit signal and by letting trains go first, the cars can wait
2) Extending the transit signal: Currently the TS turns yellow 10 seconds before the end of the pedestrian signal; shorten that either to 5 seconds or exactly the same as the Car Lights
3) Shorten up station dwell times, which is already trending in the right direction
4) Increase speed limits on the crossovers and the Hwy 27 curve to 15 km/h or 20km/h, holy crap those trains can handle more than 10km/h (GAAAAHHH!)
5) 5 or 6 minute Sevice all day to avoid people waiting too long in the minimalist station shelters
AND NOW, the positives:
Very comfy ride, no bumps or jolts (as someone who gets carsick easy, this is the reason I'll pick tram over bus anyday)
When moving at speed can keep up with traffic
Helped improve access to shops and restaurants I would otherwise not go to.
Good public washrooms at either end of the line
Next train announcement boards better than subway ones (no cp24 clutter)
Overall I am glad that the outrage that the rollout of this line caused means that their is now political incentive to make changes across the transit system, and I hope by summer time that Line 6 is down to 35-36 minutes end to end.
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Allandale25
Superstar
6ixGod
Active Member
It’s not mine, but it definitely caught my eye. He makes good content too.
lastcommodore
Active Member
Deeply unserious operating procedures. Why are driver changes happening at random stops on revenue service and not at terminals?
I would joke about doing that on Line 1 during rush hour, but from the sheer amount of delays already present most probably wouldnt notice anyway
JSF-1
Active Member
Even Jane Street would be a better place since its right next to the yard. Tobermory makes no sense at all for a crew change location.
urbanclient
Senior Member
ION LRT got 15,000 boardings per day in 2024. The 36 Finch West bus got 39,000 boardings per day in 2024. But Kitchener-Waterloo is a unique case and arguably the Regional municipality had more discretionary spending room per capita than Toronto. Even then they only paid $800 million for 19 km of tram, versus $2.5 billion for 10 km of tram just a few years later.
Also, a corridor needing/being suitable for a tram is one thing. Having high ridership per km / per $ is another thing.
Performance measures
Ridership and on-time performance graphs for the past 12 months of service.
www.grt.ca
TTC Surface Route Stats 2019-2024
The list of surface route operating statistics for 2024 recently appeared on the TTC’s Planning webpage. This article consolidates data for the years 2019 (the last pre-pandemic year) to 2024…
stevemunro.ca
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A 6264
Active Member
Good question. I see this a lot on buses. There seem to be 2 ways to make a shift change:
1. At some obscure intersection. I've seen odd locations used for decades. Wait time is usually 5 mins, including time to adjust seat height and mirrors. My guess: A driver with seniority gets to have the shift change happen a short walk from his home.
2. The bus goes "Sorry... Out of Service" (Sorry buses, I calls 'em), and drives to the terminal. Then it gets driven back. I know of bus routes where I typically have to wait for 3 Sorry buses to go by before I get one in service.
MidtownKW
New Member
ION LRT got 15,000 boardings per day in 2024. The 36 Finch West bus got 39,000 boardings per day in 2024. But Kitchener-Waterloo is a unique case and arguably the Regional municipality had more discretionary spending room per capita than Toronto. Even then they only paid $800 million for 19 km of tram, versus $2.5 billion for 10 km of tram just a few years later.
Also, a corridor needing/being suitable for a tram is one thing. Having high ridership per km / per $ is another thing.
Performance measures
Ridership and on-time performance graphs for the past 12 months of service.TTC Surface Route Stats 2019-2024
The list of surface route operating statistics for 2024 recently appeared on the TTC’s Planning webpage. This article consolidates data for the years 2019 (the last pre-pandemic year) to 2024…
Ion was done on the cheap- bare bones stations, and a route designed around existing rail corridors as much as around ridership potential. I'm not sure that it's accurate to say that the Region of Waterloo has more discretionary spending room. I don't think Ion Phase 1 would have been built at the time for $1.2 billion. We're going to see whether Ion Phase 2, 17 kilometres to Cambridge, gets built for an estimated $3.3 billion.
smallspy
Senior Member
Because one (or both) of the drivers are running late and thus out of position in terms of where they are supposed to be during their shift.
This is done to get them back close to on-time, and to allow them to take their breaks or end their shifts at the right time - and to prevent the need for paying out overtime.
It can and does happen on just about every single route if things go pear-shaped - even buses.
Dan
T3G
Senior Member
Normally, it's done at the closest intersection to the division from which the route is dispatched. For reasons that have never been entirely clear to me, every bus driver has to report first to the garage before they actually go relieve their bus on the street, and thus the changeoff point is usually chosen for its proximity to the division.