What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
    74
Out of Towner said:
Purchase a lot in new community and deviate from the master plan and see what happens. Chances are good that if you built a 8 plex on a lot designated for a single family home, civil proceeding would be initiated against you. The terms of reference in inner city communities have been changed by city council but new community developers still exercise their master planning authority.
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Is the concern affordable housing though? Or who manages density? Or architectural design standards? I’m not sure what your complaint is about.

Cause dense housing is still being build in new suburbs. But in their planning/development phases of course there is some alignment. But slightly older suburbs, if I’m not mistaken, can now see lots of the same infill we are seeing centrally, right?.
 
If one accepts the principal that public policy should be used to help regulate the cost of housing in Edmonton, then the regulations should be applied equally to everybody - but they're not. As mentioned, a new community developer can restrict construction of buildings that don't comply with their master plan for a community. Mature inner city neighborhoods however don't have that safeguard. Any type of housing (up to 8 suites) can be built anywhere without any stringent architectural controls. Apart from the private issues such as shading, parking, privacy, and crime that densification can pose to single family homeowners, the long term result of the kind of public policy that the city has enacted is that Edmonton will look like a disorganized city in Pakistan.
 
Out of Towner said:
If one accepts the principal that public policy should be used to help regulate the cost of housing in Edmonton, then the regulations should be applied equally to everybody - but they're not. As mentioned, a new community developer can restrict construction of buildings that don't comply with their master plan for a community. Mature inner city neighborhoods however don't have that safeguard. Any type of housing (up to 8 suites) can be built anywhere without any stringent architectural controls. Apart from the private issues such as shading, parking, privacy, and crime that densification can pose to single family homeowners, the long term result of the kind of public policy that the city has enacted is that Edmonton will look like a disorganized city in Pakistan.
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I think you are confusing concepts. Properties that are zoned for a certain type of development must be treated equally, regardless of whether a parcel in a new or older area. I don't believe most developers in new communities sell raw land, which is why most houses look similar and appear to be more 'intentional'. Unless there is a restrictive covenant on title or some other type of control, once a house is purchased it is not correct to suggest that the zoning rules will be applied differently in old and new neighbourhoods..

I think the primary reason you don't see infill in new communities isn't because they aren't subject to the same rules, it is because the economic life of the buildings is not over. In other words, people aren't generally tearing down 10 year old houses in new neighbourhoods, but they are with 60 year old houses in older areas. As with anything, over time things change and eventually newer areas become older and will be subject to more infill.
 
roe_ said:
I think you are confusing concepts. Properties that are zoned for a certain type of development must be treated equally, regardless of whether a parcel in a new or older area. I don't believe most developers in new communities sell raw land, which is why most houses look similar and appear to be more 'intentional'. Unless there is a restrictive covenant on title or some other type of control, once a house is purchased it is not correct to suggest that the zoning rules will be applied differently in old and new neighbourhoods..

I think the primary reason you don't see infill in new communities isn't because they aren't subject to the same rules, it is because the economic life of the buildings is not over. In other words, people aren't generally tearing down 10 year old houses in new neighbourhoods, but they are with 60 year old houses in older areas. As with anything, over time things change and eventually newer areas become older and will be subject to more infill.
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roe_ said:
I think you are confusing concepts. Properties that are zoned for a certain type of development must be treated equally, regardless of whether a parcel in a new or older area. I don't believe most developers in new communities sell raw land, which is why most houses look similar and appear to be more 'intentional'. Unless there is a restrictive covenant on title or some other type of control, once a house is purchased it is not correct to suggest that the zoning rules will be applied differently in old and new neighbourhoods..

I think the primary reason you don't see infill in new communities isn't because they aren't subject to the same rules, it is because the economic life of the buildings is not over. In other words, people aren't generally tearing down 10 year old houses in new neighbourhoods, but they are with 60 year old houses in older areas. As with anything, over time things change and eventually newer areas become older and will be subject to more infill.
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Land developers absolutely sell "raw" land. It's common practice for them to acquire land, submit plans, go through the approval processes, put in the deep services, curbs and gutters, roads, and then sell lots to builders. Once that happens, a builder is bound to the type of lot they've purchased. There's no such thing as a builder buying a SFH lot and then building an 8 suite dwelling on it. Therefore, a person buying an adjacent lot has a measure of protection that an 8 suiter won't be built next door. Instead it will be a dwelling consistent with what the developer submitted to the city for approval and the city's 8 suite bylaw will be moot until the new build becomes profitable to tear down and rebuild or repurpose. That differs from a vacant inner city lot or a tear down where a builder and developer are one and the same. So the net effect is that established communities are bearing the burden of the city's public policy objective.
 
Out of Towner said:
Land developers absolutely sell "raw" land. It's common practice for them to acquire land, submit plans, go through the approval processes, put in the deep services, curbs and gutters, roads, and then sell lots to builders. Once that happens, a builder is bound to the type of lot they've purchased. There's no such thing as a builder buying a SFH lot and then building an 8 suite dwelling on it. Therefore, a person buying an adjacent lot has a measure of protection that an 8 suiter won't be built next door. Instead it will be a dwelling consistent with what the developer submitted to the city for approval and the city's 8 suite bylaw will be moot until the new build becomes profitable to tear down and rebuild or repurpose. That differs from a vacant inner city lot or a tear down where a builder and developer are one and the same. So the net effect is that established communities are bearing the burden of the city's public policy objective.
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These new developments aren't at end of life. The main reason infill lots are seeing densification is because there's demand, and the structures are in a situation where it's now economical to demolish and replace. The OWNERS are deciding to build something entirely new on THEIR LAND.
 
Barnaby said:
These new developments aren't at end of life. The main reason infill lots are seeing densification is because there's demand, and the structures are in a situation where it's now economical to demolish and replace. The OWNERS are deciding to build something entirely new on THEIR LAND.
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I agree with that statement. Care to express an opinion on the impact to adjacent property owners? The impact is positive if the new build is consistent with the "old" zoning bylaws imho. Not so positive for somebody living in a SFH if the adjacent property becomes an 8 suiter as a result of the "new" zoning bylaw. It's much better for projects like Stationlands to remedy the affordable housing "crisis" - if that's the city's role in the first place.
 
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