[Star Strider]

Figured I'd create a new thread for this subject, as it was taking the HSR thread off track. (ha!)

I'll leave first post free to update later, maybe as a mini-wiki

 

[Star Strider]

A f*cking HOSPITAL

There's no shortage of hospitals in Edmonton and area, more than Calgary has.

List of hospitals in Alberta - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Could they be used or located more efficiently? Yeah probably.

I won't get into the efficiency problem in this thread, but bringing it back to topic, it seems like YEG might actually be an excellent spot for a future hospital, with all the suburban growth south of Henday.

Could consolidate the Devon and Leduc facilities there as well, plus when HSR is in place it'd have quick near direct access to the UofA hospital. And of course the simple air access for transfers from more remote locations.

Maybe they should scrap the new poorly located Stolery and do that instead?

There are fewer than 2.5 beds per thousand people in Canada as of 2023, a drop from 6.75 beds per thousand in 1980, according to StatsCan and data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). This density rate is significantly lower than leading countries like South Korea and Japan, where 12 beds are available for every 1,000 people.

Greater Edmonton currently operates at approximately 1.5 acute care hospital beds per 1,000 residents. This density falls well short of both the Canadian average of roughly 2.5 beds per 1,000 and the OECD average of 3.5, making the region's per-capita bed availability among the lowest in developed countries.

I missed the data source for the 1.5 of "Greater" Edmonton. What is it for Greater Calgary?

I was going to ask that as well. I did notice from the wiki links that the Calgary hospitals tend to have more rooms, but not sure if that's offset by the regional facilities in Edmonton. If I get bored I might throw the wiki data into a spreadsheet and try to get some rough numbers.

I did notice a couple of things from the OCED link though.

Firstly that Japan and SK are standouts at almost double 3rd and 4th place Germany and Austria.

While there could be a demographic explanation, its also with noting Japan and SK are former and anticipated war zones. They may have all those extra rooms just in case... Tough to say with only one metric, correlating with number of doctors would be helpful.

Also noticed that Sweden has a lower number than Canada at 1.87. Maybe there is something to be learned from their health care system?

In any case, I will double down on two of my prior assertions.

YEG lands would be an excellent place for a new facility, better than the site near Henday. Shorter term, maybe adding more rooms at existing hospitals would be cheaper? Grey Nuns and Misericordia could give up a parking lot for the cause with Valley line running.

Also, having half of the budget go to health and welfare is probably the max it should be proportionally. If the ministry can't get the job done with that, it needs to look in the mirror.

So I had some time to crunch the numbers after all, and was a bit surprised.

I figured the Calgary mega-hospitals would put it ahead, but the beds per 1000 winner actually goes to Edmonton

That said, I'd think Calgary would win on the efficiency front, from having far fewer facilities for it's metro.

All stats sourced from Wikipedia.

 

[MacLac]

So I had some time to crunch the numbers after all, and was a bit surprised.

I figured the Calgary mega-hospitals would put it ahead, but the beds per 1000 winner actually goes to Edmonton

View attachment 739070

View attachment 739071

That said, I'd think Calgary would win on the efficiency front, from having far fewer facilities for it's metro.

All stats sourced from Wikipedia.

Great work! Let me make some footnotes: Alberta Hospital for mental patients only. Glenrose for rehab only, hence the name….so that significantly lowers our ratio……

Also, surprised that the General is not on that list….which is good….it shouldn’t since it is strictly a facility where old people go to die….

 

[Star Strider]

Great work! Let me make some footnotes: Alberta Hospital for mental patients only. Glenrose for rehab only, hence the name….so that significantly lowers our ratio……

Also, surprised that the General is not on that list….which is good….it shouldn’t since it is strictly a facility where old people go to die….

I did wonder about those, but I figured there was something similar in Calgary, couldn't see people traveling 3 hours for rehab or psych appointments.

Edmonton seems to favor specialist facilities, while Calgary has some of those services distributed among their big four hospitals. Tough to do an exact comparison between regions.

But as I suppose those facilities don't constitute acute care, here's the Edmonton stats without Alberta Hospital and Glenrose. Does drop total beds lower than Calgary, but the per 1000 number is still pretty close.

The ChatGPT answers, for those that want to follow the rabbit hole..

 

[EdmTrekker]

Something wrong with University of Alberta Hospital - Stollery appears twice and sure is not 885 beds.

 

[Star Strider]

Something wrong with University of Alberta Hospital - Stollery appears twice and sure is not 885 beds.

Yeah, did some more digging and the wiki stats are misleading. 885 does appear to be accurate for UofA, but it included beds for the heart institute, and the Stolery, which also apparently has beds at the Royal Alex.

Chart updated again, Edmonton numbers are looking less good..

 

[husky]

Minor contribution but you should add Westview in Stony Plain as part of the metro too.

 

[Star Strider]

Minor contribution but you should add Westview in Stony Plain as part of the metro too.

Good catch, thanks. Appreciate everyone's constructive feedback.

I double checked some of the other entries too, wiki had some conflicting data for the St Albert hospital. Other sources confirmed the larger number so I've updated that as well.

Out of curiosity, I thought I'd see what the new Stollery build would do to the ratio when complete. Guesstimating the number of beds at 230, it may end up being more, but that would put Edmonton on par with Calgary.

 

[EdmTrekker]

Since we are in the weeds: add Lamont Health Care Centre - 14 acute care beds

Acute Care
Acute Care Nursing Station

The Acute Care Nursing Unit at Lamont Health Care Centre is comprised of 14 beds (6 private rooms and 4 semi-private rooms). The unit is staff by a Registered Nurse and Licensed Practical Nurse 24 hours a day. Health Care Aides are available for care needs as required as well. Upon admission, a detailed history is taken by one of the staff; this lends itself to the holistic care you will receive. This history is required in order to complete a care plan during the patient stay in hospital. A Physician is on call 24 hours per day for any concerns; the Registered Nurse on duty can call on this Physician at any time. A patient is assessed daily by his or her Physician or the Physician on call.

Lamont Health Care Centre

lamonthealthcarecentre.ca

Lamont Health Care Centre | Alberta Health Services

<p>This facility provides a range of healthcare services including an emergency department with limited hours.</p>

www.albertahealthservices.ca

 

[David A]

Interesting, how the new Stollery will have an impact. Although of course by the time those beds are open I expect the population will be higher too, so this could cancel out some or all of the gain.

 

[Star Strider]

Since we are in the weeds: add Lamont Health Care Centre - 14 acute care beds

Acute Care
Acute Care Nursing Station

The Acute Care Nursing Unit at Lamont Health Care Centre is comprised of 14 beds (6 private rooms and 4 semi-private rooms). The unit is staff by a Registered Nurse and Licensed Practical Nurse 24 hours a day. Health Care Aides are available for care needs as required as well. Upon admission, a detailed history is taken by one of the staff; this lends itself to the holistic care you will receive. This history is required in order to complete a care plan during the patient stay in hospital. A Physician is on call 24 hours per day for any concerns; the Registered Nurse on duty can call on this Physician at any time. A patient is assessed daily by his or her Physician or the Physician on call.

Lamont Health Care Centre

lamonthealthcarecentre.ca

Lamont Health Care Centre | Alberta Health Services

<p>This facility provides a range of healthcare services including an emergency department with limited hours.</p>

www.albertahealthservices.ca

Thanks, added to the list.

 

[Star Strider]

Interesting, how the new Stollery will have an impact. Although of course by the time those beds are open I expect the population will be higher too, so this could cancel out some or all of the gain.

Yeah the overall ratio will likely drop, metro pop could be getting pretty close to 2 million by the mid 2030s when Stollery is complete.
But as Calgary has very similar growth rates, the ratios between the regions should still be pretty comparable.

 

[David A]

Interestingly, the Calgary facilities all seem to be in the city itself, while for Edmonton 7 or more of them are not. Some are in areas which, while still in the metro area, are much further away.

Not sure how to cut this off. Probably makes sense to include St. Albert and Sherwood Park and it is nice Lamont has a facility, but hard to argue it serves anyone other than a very specific local area.

 

[Star Strider]

Interestingly, the Calgary facilities all seem to be in the city itself, while for Edmonton 7 or more of them are not. Some are in areas which, while still in the metro area, are much further away.

Not sure how to cut this off. Probably makes sense to include St. Albert and Sherwood Park and it is nice Lamont has a facility, but hard to argue it serves anyone other than a very specific local area.

The unicity model really has served Calgary well as it grows. There's definitely some overhead cost to just having a facility that could have been spent on more beds in fewer facilities.

I've been thinking of consolidation possibilities as I've built the list, but none really jump out other than Devon and Leduc into a new hospital in between both that could also service Edmonton growth areas south of Henday.

Some of the smaller cities and towns are just so spread out that removing their facilities could have negative impacts to the people, especially during winter when travel times for emergency response could be much slower.

 

[kcantor]

So, it would appear that my initial posting - even if could have been a more appropriate thread, something that this one corrects - was pretty close at 1.5 beds per 1,000 although the granular counts are quite valuable.

However, if we are really going to "get into the weeds" on the number of acute care beds available per 1,000 residents, we probably also need to deduct those acute care beds which aren't actually available for acute care patients as they're already occupied by alternative care patients who can't check out because there's nowhere for them to go. The most recent numbers I've been able to find for that bed count is:

• Sturgeon Community Hospital (St. Albert): 22.5%/38 beds
• Royal Alexandra Hospital: 18.7%/163 beds
• Misericordia Community Hospital: 17.4%/54 beds
• University of Alberta Hospital: 15.2%/134 beds
• Grey Nuns Community Hospital: 10.8%/39 beds

This reduces the above bed count from 2,846 to 2,418 and from 1.68 beds per 1,000 to 1.43 beds per 1,000.