ChazYEG said:
Latin America and Asia learned this AGES ago. Like, literal decades.
I dare you to to Brazil, Mexico or Chile and find a mall without AT LEAST a movie theatre, a kids playcentre, a central "plaza" with rotating activities and at least one additional entertainment service.

They also tend to offer services like medical, dental and day-to-day amenities and services, such as mail, pharmacy, clothes repairs, laundromat, etc. Essentially, if you live near a mall, you can do everything you need on your daily life there, usually well connected by transit. That's 15-minute cities for you, before it was trendy.

Time and time again, I'll point out that we love to talk about North America and Europe (sometimes very select parts of Asia) as the only possible models, and particularly Europe as a standard to be strived, but IMHO, we have way more to learn from countries like Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, etc. than people in North America usually care to admit.

I would honestly love to see what the kind of financial resources we have available here could to in these places.
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I mean, Edmonton was basically the blueprint for entertainment-centric malls with WEM. It was the original megamall and really the first time you had an assortment of non-retail and food court options in a vast array. Didn't quite take hold to the same degree at other malls in Edmonton or much of Canada, funnily enough, but yeah. In this case, Edmonton could learn from Edmonton, as WEM remains pretty successful.

One thing I find interesting is that WEM is the only mall with a movie theatre in the city aside from City Centre. But many of them used to. IIRC Calgary is like this too. But lots of cities in the US and even in Canada have them. It's such a no brainer. Unfortunately, Landmark and Cineplex have largely prioritized big box style ones with the new theatres of the past decade plus. So a theatre at Londonderry again would stomp on Landmark's Manning location. A theatre at Mill Woods would compete with either Landmark Tamarack or Cineplex South Common. Etc.

That being said, I agree Latin America is very overlooked for these sorts of things, which I think ultimately boils down to people's negative biases and ignorance about the region in North America. But there's much to learn!
 
ECC started with 4 stories (including basement), is now still 2 1/2 ish stories on 2 blocks, will need to continue to downsize and repurpose. West side needs to be redeveloped into residential with future smaller retail options. Will continue to have services for Downtown office and residents but reimagined with investment could be a bit more and have some clothing/lifestyle options. Manulife is unlikely to have much retail at all. We just have too much square footage for the demand, and ICE added about 200,000 sq. ft., Brewery another 300,000 sq ft. Oliver is downtown for most retailers.
 
husky said:
I wonder if something like Jubilations dinner theatre would work out of downtown.
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It is an interesting idea. There are a lots of restaurants downtown, but this could be something unique that could attract a different crowd.

It might be a good way to bring some people downtown on nights that don't have big events like concerts or hockey games.

As always, parking could be an issue but it might not be hard to include a few hours parking in a nearby parkade with the ticket price.
 
David A said:
It is an interesting idea. There are a lots of restaurants downtown, but this could be something unique that could attract a different crowd.

It might be a good way to bring some people downtown on nights that don't have big events like concerts or hockey games.

As always, parking could be an issue but it might not be hard to include a few hours parking in a nearby parkade with the ticket price.
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Yeah, only challenge would be that their main demo is the people most stereotypically anti downtown cause of NO PARKING and ZOMBIES.

But I do like the niche.
 
Greenspace said:
ECC started with 4 stories (including basement), is now still 2 1/2 ish stories on 2 blocks, will need to continue to downsize and repurpose. West side needs to be redeveloped into residential with future smaller retail options. Will continue to have services for Downtown office and residents but reimagined with investment could be a bit more and have some clothing/lifestyle options. Manulife is unlikely to have much retail at all. We just have too much square footage for the demand, and ICE added about 200,000 sq. ft., Brewery another 300,000 sq ft. Oliver is downtown for most retailers.
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Outside of the hotel, Ice District currently only has one sit down restaurant, two fast food places, a retail clothing store and nothing in the Stantec food court area except for a small coffee cart on the main level, so its not like much has moved there from City Centre or even competes with it. I don't think anything has relocated to Brewery District either from the mall or Manulife.

The population of Edmonton has more than doubled since the mall was built so the addition of square footage elsewhere somewhat reflects that. There has particularly been a fair amount of new residential development north and west of the Brewery District and I think these are the customers primarily targeted by it.
 
So many ideas for ECC, and for Manulife Place for that matter:
- dinner theatre
- bowling alley
- expanded Landmark Theatre plus IMAX
- street level food hall
- street level pubs
- at least 1 nightclub
- billiards club to replace the Metro
- comedy club
- fitness facilities (again reiterating Planet Fitness in the Sport Chek space)
- high rise residential living (for all ages, not just seniors)
- expanded Delta Hotel
- casino
- medical/dental
- urban hardware store
- menswear store
- record store
- comics/gaming store
- bookstore
- shoe shine booth
- Simons
 
There is no demand for half those things you mention, and half already exist. Assuming ICE and ECC are both destination, ECC is not anymore. ICE is still unproven numbers, but perhaps soon we're getting back to 'normal' and someone will be interested in that large restaurant space. Joey does well for example.

So the size of the City makes no difference. What makes a difference is office workers being back Downtown and continuing to add residential as well as unique experiences and destination activities. Our Downtown office population didn't change in 30 years pre-covid. But residential grew and students. Hence the large growth in hospitality the last 10 years.

A reminder that Edmonton's Downtown is technically 11.7 km2 with only 13, 000 residents. Vancouver's is 3.7 km2 with approx. 62,000 residents, as well as office, tourism, etc.
 
I haven't heard of any new enclosed malls proposed or under construction. Even in the digital shopping era, a city of 2-3 million might need 6-8 large malls. This could give city centre a real boost as demand outstrips supply and retailers are bumped down to different properties.
 
occidentalcapital said:
I haven't heard of any new enclosed malls proposed or under construction. Even in the digital shopping era, a city of 2-3 million might need 6-8 large malls. This could give city centre a real boost as demand outstrips supply and retailers are bumped down to different properties.
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Exactly. There is not much surplus space in the 3 largest malls here now, so new stores or those looking at expanding will have to start to look at other malls as the city continues to grow.

While the population downtown here is not huge, there already is an unmet demand by people living in the core who are forced to travel, often by auto instead of being able to walk to nearby stores and services, that continues to not be met or recognized, perhaps by those who do not actually live there. Also, as more people return to work or visit downtown there will also be more demand.

This is partly why around half a dozen new stores have actually opened in this mall over the last several months. It was COVID and the related restrictions and impacts that hurt this mall the most, not nearby ICE District with its current handful of actual retail places or the more distant Brewery District built really to serve new residents further away.
 
occidentalcapital said:
I haven't heard of any new enclosed malls proposed or under construction. Even in the digital shopping era, a city of 2-3 million might need 6-8 large malls. This could give city centre a real boost as demand outstrips supply and retailers are bumped down to different properties.
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That's because it's relatively rare for new malls to get built in North America. The only one built in the Edmonton area in the 21st century is the Outlet Mall. Calgary, Vancouver, and Winnipeg have all each also built 1 new mall this century (all outlet malls). The existing mall traffic is condensing onto a select few malls that have broader draw beyond the immediate vicinity. The places where, in the '70s or '80s, a new neighbourhood mall would've been built, we're seeing large power centres. Think Windermere, Tamarack, Emerald Hills, Manning TC, The Palisades, Skyview, Jensen Lakes, Granville, etc. If these areas were built up 40 years ago, they would've gotten their own Southgate or Londonderry or at least Northgate.

I do agree that as Edmonton gets bigger, there will be more demand for more retail options in a mall setting. I do hope this proves useful for City Centre but I worry it's still too close to Kingsway. I think it'll be beneficial for St Albert Centre, Londonderry, Mill Woods TC, and Sherwood Park Mall, though. There's a real lack of a mall in NW Edmonton and the fast-growing SW though.
 
Open now in the former Starbucks space on the main floor:

IMG_0784.jpeg


This would be their second location after their 99 St one.
 
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