It is really hard work to turn something like this around, after the deep hole that has been dug. So I think it might seem easier to spend some money and turn the space into something else. However when you start to look at all the other possibilities, nothing else seems particularly promising or lucrative either.

So I'm not quite sure what the strategy is at this point. Maybe totally emptying out the space allows them to do a more major renovation with much of it remaining retail space in the end. Perhaps more open, nicer and more outward facing and when that is all done in a year or two, the COVID downtown depression will be over or have diminished considerably.
 
David A said:
It is really hard work to turn something like this around, after the deep hole that has been dug. So I think it might seem easier to spend some money and turn the space into something else. However when you start to look at all the other possibilities, nothing else seems particularly promising or lucrative either.

So I'm not quite sure what the strategy is at this point. Maybe totally emptying out the space allows them to do a more major renovation with much of it remaining retail space in the end. Perhaps more open, nicer and more outward facing and when that is all done in a year or two, the COVID downtown depression will be over or have diminished considerably.
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Curious what happened with those renders and plans we saw about a year ago. It looked like what you're describing -- at least for the west end -- but it seems someone jumped the gun releasing the photos because there's been no talk since...
 
There was talk. The owners indicated that until the Downtown gets cleaned up, becomes safer and sees more attention overall, that their significant multi-million dollar reinvestment will wait.
 
IanO said:
There was talk. The owners indicated that until the Downtown gets cleaned up, becomes safer and sees more attention overall, that their significant multi-million dollar reinvestment will wait.
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Yes, but I felt that was either frustration of the moment or political posturing - maybe a bit of both. However, as a longer term business strategy to me it does not make any sense.

All these problems are really never going to go away. The city seems to be making some effort to deal with the problems and make it more manageable/pleasant, but we are never getting to perfect. It would seem to me to be madness to me to sit on a huge mostly empty space for years with the costs entailed with little or no revenue in the hope some day years in the future it will somehow be great.
 
Their two towers are full, and there's some parkade revenue. There's a handful of service oriented stores that aren't going anywhere. Business strategies can span 5-40 years, so it might be just we're not party to what they're planning at this moment.

Security costs are WAY up all over Downtown. That's in direct response to real issues. But yes people complained about safety before the pandemic, but not to the extent I hear it now specifically from visitors and workers. I personally feel safe most of the times but consider myself 'street smart', but that's kinda irrelevant when we're talking about getting people back to Downtown and business confidence.
 
Greenspace said:
Their two towers are full, and there's some parkade revenue. There's a handful of service oriented stores that aren't going anywhere. Business strategies can span 5-40 years, so it might be just we're not party to what they're planning at this moment.

Security costs are WAY up all over Downtown. That's in direct response to real or perceived issues. But yes people complained about safety before the pandemic, but not to the extent I hear it now specifically from visitors and workers. I personally feel safe most of the times but consider myself 'street smart', but that's kinda irrelevant when we're talking about getting people back to Downtown and business confidence.
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Likewise, I personally feel safe most of the time and I walk downtown almost every day. I feel the city and others, while perhaps slow to react, are now making a good effort particularly on safety.

I realize it may take time for confidence to come back and the pandemic exposed lingering problems in a very obvious way, but the owners of this building rightly asked for action and I fee they got it. So now I feel the ball is in their court to also make an effort to help get things back on track.
 
kcantor said:
spending another half a billion dollars or so throwing good money after bad doesn’t make sense as a business strategy either…

until there is enough confidence that the status quo isn’t going to stay the status quo (noting that economics and interest rates are also part of that status quo), we’re not likely to see much happen.
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I feel it is about making the effort to fill the space and not giving up and I don't think that requires spending a half a billion dollars.
 
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This was around 12:30pm... my own Vanilla Sky
 
I might have been in that pedway you see way at the back of the picture around that time, it is usually quite busy around that time with traffic between the mall and the Manulife. Of course no one in front of the now closed department store, there is no reason to walk to a closed store.
 
David A said:
I might have been in that pedway you see way at the back of the picture around that time, it is usually quite busy around that time with traffic between the mall and the Manulife. Of course no one in front of the now closed department store, there is no reason to walk to a closed store.
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With the entirety of The Bay area closed off, I came out of the City Centre doors to walk for lunch and I didn't walk past another person until I got to 104st. Thankfully, 104th was actually quite busy.
 
Having both the road in front of the old Bay store closed and the LRT line not yet running also doesn't help either but it is a perfect example of what happens when the retail disappears and the area becomes less accessible.
 
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