Gronk! said:
Oxford owns Kingsway and was the prior owner of ECC. Oxford had both malls in competition with each other until they sold the latter to LaSalle - in hindsight, not really a good move.
Click to expand...
It wasn't so much a competition with Oxford - they built up one and let the other (City Centre) languish, knowing the office towers still had value when they dumped it on LaSalle.

The decline in City Centre really started 5 years or more ago. It was a solid mall for almost 30 years (all the while when West Ed and Kingsway were around), but bad management for a decade or so drove it into the ground. LaSalle really got a terrible mess, then COVID hit and made it much worse. I am not sure if they are smart enough, but I think are trying to figure out how to fix it.
 
archited said:
Don Love's kids moved to Toronto and took the company (Oxford) with them after Don ceded control -- I think for them that Edmonton is just a distant memory and selling assets was more in their inheritance mode than trying to grow the company further (you know, exotic sports cars and the like).
Click to expand...
Thanks for saying that. I have thought before how it ironically was once a very successful Edmonton company and City Centre was once one of its most prized assets.

Its a sad commentary when people forget where they are from and where they made their money.
 
Edmonchuk said:
Every time I go to work, Epcor tower, I am fully aware that the time when something is going to happen to me is very close. I witnessed stuff that I never thought I would. I saw normal people going to work getting attacked in front of me, pushed onto the road, getting spit on.

It‘s absolutely a disaster. And I want to go to the legislature and fucking protest this nightmare. Where is this huge budget surplus going to?!

We need to get all these disadvantaged people and drop them all on Smith’s front yard, or her restaurant!

This government doesn’t give a shit about this city. They are all from Calgary. Once they are done destroying public services, they are gonna leave.

I was not born here but got emotionally attached to this city. But I don’t want to wait 20 years until things get better. It’s very frustrating.
Click to expand...
So instead of spending the money on permanent, not temporary, shelters or for places the homeless or others can stay during the day, they are generally kicked out and wander downtown aimlessly.

Of course, now the provincial government has money to spend on more sheriffs and more policing. So they are probably spending more on that than if they dealt with the problem better before. I really doubt they are saving any money in the end, but they sure are making things here worse.
 
soupcrate said:
Don't forget 109 St. The little section near Jasper with Greta, Central Social Hall and the Pint (surprisingly enough) can get pretty busy.
Click to expand...
Thanks, good point, amidst all our doom and gloom there are still some areas downtown that are doing well.

If anything this area has improved in the last several years, which goes to show that some Edmontonians still do go downtown despite all the well publicized problems.

So maybe there is hope for the rest of downtown. All the problems and negativity makes me quite angry at times, but don't think we should give up.
 
David A said:
Thanks for saying that. I have thought before how it ironically was once a very successful Edmonton company and City Centre was once one of its most prized assets.

Its a sad commentary when people forget where they are from and where they made their money.
Click to expand...
it’s a sad commentary when the city allows the demolition of the very first office building your company built (the bank of montreal building at 101street and jasper avenue) and then allows the demolition of the new bank of montreal building across the street from your major asset to create yet another urban blight…

it’s a sad commentary when the city allows what should be the showcase pieces of downtown to deteriorate the way they have. and yes, i know there are some complex underlying issues to some of that but that’sa reason, not an excuse.

If the city doesn’t care - and doesn’t demonstrate that they care - why should oxford?
 
David A said:
Thanks, good point, amidst all our doom and gloom there are still some areas downtown that are doing well.

If anything this area has improved in the last several years, which goes to show that some Edmontonians still do go downtown despite all the well publicized problems.

So maybe there is hope for the rest of downtown. All the problems and negativity makes me quite angry at times, but don't think we should give up.
Click to expand...

City centre mall is also a fine looking shopping centre on the inside. There's good light and views of the downtown in spots, too.

Although the exterior of it is another story.

I mean if I had my choice I would definitely prefer turning it inside out with street level engagement and access. But as a mall, on the inside, it's fine. It just needs tenants.
 
David A said:
Thanks, good point, amidst all our doom and gloom there are still some areas downtown that are doing well.

If anything this area has improved in the last several years, which goes to show that some Edmontonians still do go downtown despite all the well publicized problems.

So maybe there is hope for the rest of downtown. All the problems and negativity makes me quite angry at times, but don't think we should give up.
Click to expand...

We have the Junos next month, quite likely another Oilers playoff run, some awesome concerts, our annual festivals (e.g. Taste of Edmonton, Cariwest), new developments, new LRT line, new park and Lord knows what else I'm forgetting. Unlike certain naysayers, I say we never give up!
 
Last edited:
Gronk! said:
We have the Junos next month, quite likely another Oilers playoff run, some awesome concerts, our annual festivals (e.g. Taste of Edmonton, Cariwest), new developments, new LRT line, new park and Lord knows what else I'm forgetting. Unlike certain naysayers, I say we never give up!
Click to expand...
Definitely on board with this attitude. There's still lots of things to look forward to and hope for in an area with tons of potential.
 
kcantor said:
it’s a sad commentary when the city allows the demolition of the very first office building your company built (the bank of montreal building at 101street and jasper avenue) and then allows the demolition of the new bank of montreal building across the street from your major asset to create yet another urban blight…

it’s a sad commentary when the city allows what should be the showcase pieces of downtown to deteriorate the way they have. and yes, i know there are some complex underlying issues to some of that but that’sa reason, not an excuse.

If the city doesn’t care - and doesn’t demonstrate that they care - why should oxford?
Click to expand...
Well, I still feel Oxford was a poor corporate citizen and should be called out for that. However, I feel there is plenty of blame to go around for the problems being discussed here.

A big one that really does not get enough coverage is the Province of Alberta and its approaches to homelessness and addictions. However, the City of Edmonton has done some really dumb things to, like the example you cited and don't get me started on why they still charge for Saturday and evening parking downtown. One wonders if they really have a death wish for downtown.

I don't think the City actually intends to drive out the remaining businesses, but many things they are doing or not doing are making the situation downtown worse. Interestingly I have noticed our our relatively new downtown city councillor who I would expect a bit more of seems to have little to say about all of this, which I think is also part of the problem. I get the feeling none of this is a priority for the city and instead of being proactive, they are just reacting politically as problems arise.
 
kcantor said:
it’s a sad commentary when the city allows the demolition of the very first office building your company built (the bank of montreal building at 101street and jasper avenue) and then allows the demolition of the new bank of montreal building across the street from your major asset to create yet another urban blight…

it’s a sad commentary when the city allows what should be the showcase pieces of downtown to deteriorate the way they have. and yes, i know there are some complex underlying issues to some of that but that’sa reason, not an excuse.

If the city doesn’t care - and doesn’t demonstrate that they care - why should oxford?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure the City could've prevented the demolition of the two BMO buildings, as neither was a designated historic resources nor could they just revoke a demolition permit (private property rights). That's the unfortunate truth. The COE isn't responsible for the care and upkeep of private property at the end of the day, of course.
 
David A said:
Well, I still feel Oxford was a poor corporate citizen and should be called out for that. However, I feel there is plenty of blame to go around for the problems being discussed here.

A big one that really does not get enough coverage is the Province of Alberta and its approaches to homelessness and addictions. However, the City of Edmonton has done some really dumb things to, like the example you cited and don't get me started on why they still charge for Saturday and evening parking downtown. One wonders if they really have a death wish for downtown.

I don't think the City actually intends to drive out the remaining businesses, but many things they are doing or not doing are making the situation downtown worse. Interestingly I have noticed our our relatively new downtown city councillor who I would expect a bit more of seems to have little to say about all of this, which I think is also part of the problem. I get the feeling none of this is a priority for the city and instead of being proactive, they are just reacting politically as problems arise.
Click to expand...
I agree Saturdays and evening parking should be free, but only for the first 2 hours, as to prevent people from abusing it. That would allow people from the burbs to drive in for an event or nice dinner and at most pay for 1 or 2 hours at maybe 2.50/hour if they spend more than 2 hours Downtown.
 
David A said:
Well, I still feel Oxford was a poor corporate citizen and should be called out for that. However, I feel there is plenty of blame to go around for the problems being discussed here.

A big one that really does not get enough coverage is the Province of Alberta and its approaches to homelessness and addictions. However, the City of Edmonton has done some really dumb things to, like the example you cited and don't get me started on why they still charge for Saturday and evening parking downtown. One wonders if they really have a death wish for downtown.

I don't think the City actually intends to drive out the remaining businesses, but many things they are doing or not doing are making the situation downtown worse. Interestingly I have noticed our our relatively new downtown city councillor who I would expect a bit more of seems to have little to say about all of this, which I think is also part of the problem. I get the feeling none of this is a priority for the city and instead of being proactive, they are just reacting politically as problems arise.
Click to expand...
Too negative IMO.

Right now downtown is doing better than it has in years, with COVID receding, return to office, ice district filling in, better security/safety (still more to work on). We can recognize when things are getting better, it is not all bad. Key is to continue this momentum, get a bunch of street facing businesses opened, keep building. We have the opportunity with the immigration numbers going way up, and demand for housing steadily building, plus some absorption of office space in key sectors (first time that has happened for a while). Let's see things as they are rather than overly negative, and keep building the momentum.
 
occidentalcapital said:
Too negative IMO.

Right now downtown is doing better than it has in years, with COVID receding, return to office, ice district filling in, better security/safety (still more to work on). We can recognize when things are getting better, it is not all bad. Key is to continue this momentum, get a bunch of street facing businesses opened, keep building. We have the opportunity with the immigration numbers going way up, and demand for housing steadily building, plus some absorption of office space in key sectors (first time that has happened for a while). Let's see things as they are rather than overly negative, and keep building the momentum.
Click to expand...
All the empty spaces in City Centre and in this area present a somewhat different picture. Maybe it is darkest before the dawn, but better is sure not evident at this point.

I suppose we can hope post COVID things will improve, but there is no real solid plan to get people to come back downtown and some of the fundamental problems go back further than COVID. Lets not forget, retail businesess were leaving here before COVID too (ex. Eddie Bauer, Birks, Holts ...).

I think relying on hope will just lead to more complacency, which is the last thing we need now. We need to be more proactive and rather than just react to crises as they arise.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top