[Northern Light]

Laker/Waterloo isn't independent anymore. They got bought by Carlsberg.

Smoke, are the LCBO going to direct to store from their warehouse or are they going via the supermarket distribution centre?

 

[Smoke2011]

Smoke, are the LCBO going to direct to store from their warehouse or are they going via the supermarket distribution centre?

They are still going direct to the stores. LCBO did open a third party warehouse Trillium 2 to help with the expansion.

My understanding is that it would require some changes from the AGCO to allow a companies dc to store products.

 

[just east of the creek]

Is anyone disappointed with corner store beer and wine? I am. If i never drink another can of Pabst, Old Milwaukee, Busch, Michelob, Miller.....and why are we selling the US branded schlock? Pretty much the same story for wine - cheap junk. So that experiment has pretty much ended for me and I am back to the LLBO for some one stop shopping.

 

[Northern Light]

Is anyone disappointed with corner store beer and wine? I am. If i never drink another can of Pabst, Old Milwaukee, Busch, Michelob, Miller.....and why are we selling the US branded schlock? Pretty much the same story for wine - cheap junk. So that experiment has pretty much ended for me and I am back to the LLBO for some one stop shopping.

Most {(not all) small retailers take a limited amount of stock and brands, primarily high sellers (volume) and low price point.

Most convenience retailers don't anticipate high demand for $40 per bottle wine, or $4 per can Craft Beer.

They likely underestimate the demand in many cases.....(for better product)........but few customers will take the time to tell them that.

The working assumption will tend to be that product that's easy and reliable to access, moves quickly, has a lower price works better on limited shelf space, and as well, reduces the risk of expensive shop lifting.

For all of that, there are exceptions, there are retailers in trendy, well-off communities for the most part, that recognize that there is a market for better, for local etc.

And they meet that demand.

But they tend to be independents (not Circle K) and they tend to in areas where people are likely to push for that alternative product.

I buy the majority of my stuff at the LCBO........the Local Sobeys has a very limited selection, with literally 2-3 wines I would consider to be of reasonable quality, which they are usually out of.......but I digress.

But if you want to change what gets carried, talk to the merchant. Let them know there's a market for better. Some wont' listen, but many will.

 

[christiesplits]

Most convenience retailers don't anticipate high demand for $40 per bottle wine, or $4 per can Craft Beer.

During the roll-out, I informed the cashier at the Greenwood & Danforth Circle K that their bottle of Pinot shouldn't be in the fridge. He said "customers demand cold."

 

[torontowest91]

Is anyone disappointed with corner store beer and wine? I am. If i never drink another can of Pabst, Old Milwaukee, Busch, Michelob, Miller.....and why are we selling the US branded schlock? Pretty much the same story for wine - cheap junk. So that experiment has pretty much ended for me and I am back to the LLBO for some one stop shopping.

lot of usa brands are made in canada so they are exempt

 

[just east of the creek]

lot of usa brands are made in canada so they are exempt

I understand that, but the stuff is crap. And we should just be banning the crap due to its affiliations with our southern neighbour. We should be searching out all Canadian products and (drifting off topic here a bit) requesting, demanding, encouraging Canadian producers and Canadians generally to step up their game, double down on being more productive, and more innovative, with an eye on new trade horizons that are all not fixated on the southern border. Easy - no, but good outcomes are not generally easy. Our ag exports are at a record pace this year, even though the 'talk' is somewhat negative due to Chinese tariffs etc. Some further analysis needed there as to the what and where, but good news generally.

And FYI, our post work day beer is most often a Creemore. Now that is a good beer.

 

[just east of the creek]

Most {(not all) small retailers take a limited amount of stock and brands, primarily high sellers (volume) and low price point.

Most convenience retailers don't anticipate high demand for $40 per bottle wine, or $4 per can Craft Beer.

They likely underestimate the demand in many cases.....(for better product)........but few customers will take the time to tell them that.

The working assumption will tend to be that product that's easy and reliable to access, moves quickly, has a lower price works better on limited shelf space, and as well, reduces the risk of expensive shop lifting.

For all of that, there are exceptions, there are retailers in trendy, well-off communities for the most part, that recognize that there is a market for better, for local etc.

And they meet that demand.

But they tend to be independents (not Circle K) and they tend to in areas where people are likely to push for that alternative product.

I buy the majority of my stuff at the LCBO........the Local Sobeys has a very limited selection, with literally 2-3 wines I would consider to be of reasonable quality, which they are usually out of.......but I digress.

But if you want to change what gets carried, talk to the merchant. Let them know there's a market for better. Some wont' listen, but many will.

This i get.

However, the solution for us is to stock up.

Running out to the LLBO is a drive, the same with any still existing beer stores.

The corner has become less relevant almost every year. Summer ice cream cones. Occasionally ice, perhaps some fuel on occasion, an emergency grocery staple, That's it. In the one conversation i had with the operator, I did get the impression that beer and wine were not a windfall to revenue, and s source of additional overhead. Enthusiasm for the product was not high.

In an urban setting, with a denser % of higher incomes or more discretionary tastes, then maybe you will find a larger selection, that would carry some products that those with a nose for vino might appreciate. Next time I am visiting the parental units in Oakville I may check that out. But the lcbo is pretty darn good at stocking, at sourcing stock from their product list for you, at pre-orders etc etc. And their selection of beer, cider etc is good.

 

[Northern Light]

That's it. In the one conversation i had with the operator, I did get the impression that beer and wine were not a windfall to revenue, and s source of additional overhead. Enthusiasm for the product was not high.

The LCBO was wholesaling to licensees at 90% of their retail price.

They still are for supermarkets, though convenience stores have been lowered to 85% for now.

Assuming you wanted to remain at the same price as the LCBO, that's not much margin to work with.

Shoplifting will make that margin contract by a 2-3 points minimum, maybe more. Factor the cost of putting it on the shelf, training for staff (all clerks need Smart Serve) etc.......Its pretty much a break-even scenario.
The odd merchant will manage to eke out a 5% ROI. Its generally being carried so you don't lose that sale to a competitor, on the assumption that you're likely to buy snacks or another item or two while there, on which the margin is better.

****

Just to share, in general my market observation is that grocers are broadly price matching LCBO, with the odd one making minor tweaks higher/lower.

Convenience stores, to my eye, have been average around .20c per can extra on beer, and about $2 extra on a bottle of wine.

 

[just east of the creek]

I don't think it was a pressing concern, or that its likely to be a big seller for most small retailers. I'd be surprised if most carry it.

That said, collectively, Port, Sherry and Vermouth do take up a notable amount of shellf space in the LCBO, so there is some material customer base.



Its not really part of the 'wine market' as such.

Sherry and Port are 'sippers'. Sherry is typically thought of as your British grandma's drink.

Port, well, the better Port is something of an after-dinner drink, the sort of thing you have 1-2oz of. Its on the sweet side, and has slightly thicker consistency than wine. Its also somewhat common in sauces for beef; ie Beef Tenderloin in Port Reduction.

Vermouth can be consumed a number of ways, but is most typically something that goes into a Martini.

Madeira is something more commonly seen in cooking.



I more or less agree, Local stores could already sell, in theory, wines with up to 18% alcohol. This just allows a wine that arrives at that number a different way (typically by adding brandy or such) to be permitted as well.)

But worth saying, I have yet to see any wines in convenience stores that are 14% or greater.

In general, full-bodied (higher alcohol wines) are more expensive, the taste can be quite good, with, for instance, a well structured Primitivo (Zinfandel from Italy), or an Ammarone; though often the taste will not appeal to a more novice wine drinker.

If you want to make a really good Negroni, then there is only the LCBO to go. And I think that holds for a lot of cocktails. Now a good rum for a Dark'n Stormy or the the classic beach side Rum n"Coke may be a little different matter. Madeira, Port, Sherry are all LCBO items if you are looking for quality (and be careful with generalizing Port as sweet, sweeter maybe but careful.

I had to run down to Burlington to pick up a couple of things at Rona and there is a Longos close by with a very, very good variety and supply of chilled beer, plus a couple of pallets of Heineken, (Canadian) Stella, Steam whistle etc.

Its just a 'little' further to drive, and there is an LCBO a tad closer, even a beer store just a bit further on, so the convenience factor comes into play a bit with this level of quality and variety.

 

[Jonny5]

Sherry and Port are 'sippers'. Sherry is typically thought of as your British grandma's drink.

Sherry is also used in a lot of cooking, and many deserts, especially traditional holiday ones may call for it, which I think drives the shelf space.
Some varieties of sherry are also a close substitute for Shaoxing rice wine, which is generally not carried at the LCBO, and that may drive sales too.