Allandale25
Senior Member
Maybe @Wm Perkins Bull knows but I'm curious if this was factored into the City's budget recently adopted or is considered 'new' money for 2026?
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Maybe @Wm Perkins Bull knows but I'm curious if this was factored into the City's budget recently adopted or is considered 'new' money for 2026?
drum118
Superstar
I believe this is new funding starting in 2025/26, but can't speak to Brampton budget.
Wm Perkins Bull
Active Member
It was incorporated into the 2026 budget forecast. I will be honest, the use of debt to fund replacement buses is quite concerning.
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ re debt, is that the "External Tax Supported Debt" line in the screenshot you've provided?
Wm Perkins Bull
Active Member
The most annoying policy nerd in the City of Brampton strikes again, she has been harassing the City for the last half decade to do this.
This is going to Committee of Council on Wednesday https://pub-brampton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=134835
JJTheJetPln
Active Member
I've given this a lot of thought, and as much as I'd love to see a LRT going down Steeles, I'd much rather they do a BRT. As it stands right now, Brampton is in sore need of transportation planning that speeds up its current bus fleet during rush hour traffic to avoid bunching. Steeles Avenue moves a lot of freight, and passengers, which in turn results in buses being slowed by the rate of traffic. If the city can secure funding to do a BRT as opposed to a LRT, I'd be in full support of it. Looking at the future, I also believe that the fleet operating within the BRT could also benefit from the electrification from either NovaBus or New Flyer. However, I don't know if NovaBus has any electric articulated buses, so this is more wishful thinking from me.
I also believe that planning and execution on a BRT would cost significantly less, and have a shorter timeline than the planning and execution on that of a LRT. While I can understand that Metrolinx has their hands in everything when it comes to transit planning, I can't accept the city aiming for a LRT knowing how Metrolinx and their P3 partners have fallen short in terms of timelines when it comes to anything that involves rail.
I'd also like some correspondence from the city regarding the Queen BRT, and whether or not they'd explore a similar option with Bovaird as well. In my opinion, I feel that Bovaird and Queen would be best served by BRT's if they do come up in the future as part of these Higher Order Transit Master Plans.
Northern Light
Superstar
Really pre-mature.
I just checked the schedules for Zum on Steeles East of Gateway.........
Weekday mid-day is every 10, not bad, but not higher-order level good...........but evenings and Saturdays are every 15, while Sundays are every 20M.
Before discussing higher order service............
Rush Hours every 5'; midday and weekday evenings every 7'30, and weekends every 10.
Get there, then we can talk higher order investments.
Wm Perkins Bull
Active Member
Sylvia is intent on it being elevated rail, which is funny because she used to be Miss BRT.
The reasons for this as enumerated by her include
a) the Steeles Right of way is at maximum build out,
b) Steeles between the 410 and the 427 is one of the most important freight corridors of the country, necessitating the preservation of the same number of general auto lanes
c) because of a & b, an at grade project would require extraordinarily expensive expropriation and road widening
d) widening would require very expensive bridging of the 410, the CN mainline, 407 overpass and going under the tracks connecting to the CN Intermodal terminal which is the busiest in the country
e) There are sufficient setbacks on the south side of Steeles, and the hydro corridor is mostly on the north side, allowing elevated rail to be built while only requiring a small number of building expropriations, and retaining the number of lanes.
f) because of the aforementioned factors, the net incremental cost for elevated rail compared to net benefits will result in it retaining a fair Benefits Case.
g) full grade separation would allow vehicles to average double the speed of traffic on Steeles, leading to significant auto conversion to transit, adding significant capacity for freight.
Based on these factors, it passes a sanity check, although that does not necessarily mean elevated rail will pencil out.
You make the technical error of overlooking the 11 Steeles which interlines for most of Highway 10 to Humber College. Together they have a combined average headway of sub 4 minutes in rush hour and 5 minutes mid peak from Gateway Terminal (Highway 10) to Humber College. Furthermore, the 504 Chinguacousy to be launched next year will interline the Steeles corridor from Chinguacousy Road to Bramalea Road, giving the section between Highway 10 and Bramalea Road a combined headway below 3 minutes in rush hour and 4 minutes midday. If BT tries to cram even more buses onto the corridor then it will be stuck in permanent bus bunching during rush hour. as the bus headway will be at or new the light cycle time. In order for BRT to work at that point, Brampton Transit would need to build an entirely new MSF to handle the XL biarticulated buses and would be the only system in the US or Canada to operate those vehicles, making procurement a disaster. Also keep in mind that even counting the pandemic, Brampton Transit has averaged 8% ridership growth per year for two decades. Any RT project will take more than a decade from today, meaning a conventional articulated BRT would likely be at maximum capacity the day it opens.
Northern Light
Superstar
Good points, as always.
Brampton doesn't show the services as one corridor in their frequency guide. My oversight.
Though, looking at it now, weekday evening and weekend services are still over 10M headways even when combining the services.
That certainly suggests room to grow.
4M peak is more impressive to be sure. Is that currently run w/artics or conventional?
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The only places that would benefit from having actual bus lanes is at the Steeles and Finch intersection, over the CN bridge to Bramalea, the bridge over the 410. That's about it.
Wm Perkins Bull
Active Member
The 11 is shown differently because the 11 makes local stops and the 511 runs express with far fewer stops and articulated buses.
Capacity is sized for peak loads, if buses cannot handle peak demand then you start looking at higher capacity modes. One of the advantages of fully grade separated rail is you can automate it, which drives down the cost per hour making it much easier to run off peak service. Once the 504 is introduced next year the combined evening and weekend headway will be at or below 10 minutes.
paperguy
New Member
i think they gave up updating the ridership page
ShonTron
Moderator
The person who updated it retired last year.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Media release from the City. I can never tell when they use the word "adjusted" if these are increases/decreases in service. I guess I'd have to cross-reference with the existing schedule. Maybe some experts here can easily spot improvements.
ShonTron
Moderator
For most time periods, its an improvement to both the 511 and the 11, especially west of Sheridan.