[Towered]

Don't forget that there needs to be a sufficiently wide buffer to ensure that the bike lane isn't in the door zone from parked cars. As it is, the lane is barely wide enough. Anecdotally, I was biking on Bloor the other day and was barely able to make it around a pickup truck parked next to the bike lane with its passenger side door open. It's also important to have enough space to be able to dodge hazards like glass or sewer grates, and in an ideal world, there'd be enough room for to overtake another person on a bike without going into the car lane. So there are a few reasons you'd want wider lanes, but as @Northern Light mentioned, these lanes aren't even that wide.

I cycle along Bloor frequently and I agree, the lanes are not wide, so I'm not sure what @Amare is on about. You can't even pass slow cyclists, which I find rather frustrating.

 

[just east of the creek]

I don't think the majority of the bike lanes are particularly wide:

View attachment 413550

That certainly doesn't seem at all excessive to me, in fact, there's limited room for proper buffering/separation in the wb direction in this pic.

If its desirable here to have wider travel lanes and/or more turn lanes, there's really one answer for that, the parking needs to come out.

I'm certainly open to that, but I'm not sure its a can of worms that demands near-term reopening either.

On street parking on major routes, such as Bloor, should be eliminated. Toronto suffers from a surplus of narrow sidewalks and narrow bike lanes (and not just TO). Allowances for transit - yes. Allowance for Emergency Vehicles - yes. Allowance for service vehicles - yes. Car drivers, and yes I am one of those transiting into areas of Toronto, are going to have to learn to adjust to the realities of a people centered neighborhood, as opposed to an SUV centered neighborhood. I can accept that as I see the benefits to the neighborhood far outweigh the negatives. But I think this is going to require a strong political push to attain.

 

[Amare]

I cycle along Bloor frequently and I agree, the lanes are not wide, so I'm not sure what @Amare is on about. You can't even pass slow cyclists, which I find rather frustrating.

If these lanes arent wide enough, i'm not sure what you would think of even more narrow lanes such as the ones on Royal York Rd in the west end. I've cycled on lanes much narrower and although it's not safety inspiring, it's been doable.

Depends what section you are speaking about in particular, some parts are narrow too. I frequent Bloor in the central part of the city where there are many big vehicles due to all the construction and haven't seen any issues. Any particular area you are thinking about?

The area I had in mind was from Runnymede to around Dundas and Bloor that is particularly wide. It doesnt work for through traffic, or parking. It's like the city is trying to marry and accommodate everyone and frankly in my opinion it's not working smoothly.

On street parking on major routes, such as Bloor, should be eliminated. Toronto suffers from a surplus of narrow sidewalks and narrow bike lanes (and not just TO). Allowances for transit - yes. Allowance for Emergency Vehicles - yes. Allowance for service vehicles - yes. Car drivers, and yes I am one of those transiting into areas of Toronto, are going to have to learn to adjust to the realities of a people centered neighborhood, as opposed to an SUV centered neighborhood. I can accept that as I see the benefits to the neighborhood far outweigh the negatives. But I think this is going to require a strong political push to attain.

This is something I completely agree on and i've been pushing for. I dont understand why we have front parking on major arterials like Bloor, Danforth, Queen etc. If the city was bold we would be pushing for more Green P parking (if really required) either at the rear of buildings like we see along stretches of Bloor West, or underground. Unfortunately when we have status quo and unambitious politicians at the helm, the change wont happen anytime soon.

 

[Towered]

If these lanes arent wide enough, i'm not sure what you would think of even more narrow lanes such as the ones on Royal York Rd in the west end.

I cycle on Royal York every day. The current conditions of lines painted on asphalt calling themselves bike lanes is unacceptable. They need to be widened, with a protective barrier added. Full stop.

 

[crs1026]

I cycle on Royal York every day. The current conditions of lines painted on asphalt calling themselves bike lanes is unacceptable. They need to be widened, with a protective barrier added. Full stop.

You're braver than me.... I find another route. Not safe enough for these bones.

- Paul

 

[vz64]

You're braver than me.... I find another route. Not safe enough for these bones.

- Paul

Interesting! I find Royal York as one of the safest (for me..) roads to cycle in Toronto. The bike lane is a bit narrow, but not too narrow. The passing cars can see you well and don't cut you at intersections. With protective barriers it would be too narrow!! I don't like Bloor or Yonge protected bike lanes: they are too narrow, restricted, and convoluted with tons of obstacles and right-turning traffic trying to kill you.. Nothing of this sort happens on Royal York, I can cycle safely at 30-40km/h. On Bloor, even 20 km/h is not safe.. A protected lane should be wider to be safe, something like Bayview bike lane south of Pottery Rd.

 

[crs1026]

Interesting! I find Royal York as one of the safest (for me..) roads to cycle in Toronto. The bike lane is a bit narrow, but not too narrow. The passing cars can see you well and don't cut you at intersections. With protective barriers it would be too narrow!! I don't like Bloor or Yonge protected bike lanes: they are too narrow, restricted, and convoluted with tons of obstacles and right-turning traffic trying to kill you.. Nothing of this sort happens on Royal York, I can cycle safely at 30-40km/h. On Bloor, even 20 km/h is not safe.. A protected lane should be wider to be safe, something like Bayview bike lane south of Pottery Rd.

It has some OK stretches, but north of Bloor and down around the High Schools, the many stopping buses are a pain. And up close to Dundas is also hairy because motorists speed up where the road widens, and there are on and off ramps.

- Paul

 

[afransen]

If these lanes arent wide enough, i'm not sure what you would think of even more narrow lanes such as the ones on Royal York Rd in the west end. I've cycled on lanes much narrower and although it's not safety inspiring, it's been doable.

Dutch design standard for one way cycle path is minimum 2m width to allow for passing. A path with >150 riders per hour should be minimum 2.5m. Of course, nowhere in North America really tries to meet such a standard, but we can't complain about bike lanes being too wide unless they are above to basic minimum that is accepted in NL.

 

[SubHuman]

Is there any kind of requirement for storefronts to not block the sidewalk?
I've already made one post in this thread pointing out this particular location, a fruit store that puts extra shelves and other things there, leaving what's effectively a gap of about five or six feet wide. And for some reason, people continually feel compelled to make this the place where they stop to have a group conversation, and force all the other pedestrians to step into the bike lane. As I was approaching it this afternoon, sure enough a woman did just that, causing a polite young man on a bike to yell "Watch it, idiot!" at her.

Edit: The sidewalk along the rest of this stretch of Bloor St W is quite wide. I don't know what it is that continually causes people to stop to talk at this one narrow place, almost like they're purposefully trying to block the sidewalk and make others have to walk into the bike lane, instead of any other spot just a few steps away where they wouldn't be in anyone's way.
Maybe paint arrows and "please keep moving" on the sidewalk?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I did a 35 Km ride yesterday from Cabbagetown to Harbourfront to see the tall ships, and then to the Humber bridge and up to Old Mill Station. I then rode the Bloor bike lanes from Old Mill to University before turning down for Queens Park and home along Wellesley. I have to say that the Bloor bikes lanes were great, no obstructions or construction detours for once.

 

[DSCToronto]

Is there any kind of requirement for storefronts to not block the sidewalk?
I've already made one post in this thread pointing out this particular location, a fruit store that puts extra shelves and other things there, leaving what's effectively a gap of about four or five feet wide. And for some reason, people continually feel compelled to make this the place where they stop to have a group conversation, and force all the other pedestrians to step into the bike lane. As I approaching it this afternoon, sure enough a woman did just that, causing a polite young man on a bike to yell "Watch it, idiot!" at her.
View attachment 662477

Yes, there are by-laws and licences governing sidewalk vendors and cafes. This store has a Marketing Display permit and from the photo the clear area meets code requirements - to be honest I think it looks rather charming.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, there are by-laws and licences governing sidewalk vendors and cafes. This store has a Marketing Display permit and from the photo the clear area meets code requirements - to be honest I think it looks rather charming.

View attachment 662504

That sidewalk looks generous compared to what I see around a couple of stores in Chinatown East!

I don't see what the issue here is.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Is there any kind of requirement for storefronts to not block the sidewalk?
I've already made one post in this thread pointing out this particular location, a fruit store that puts extra shelves and other things there, leaving what's effectively a gap of about five or six feet wide. And for some reason, people continually feel compelled to make this the place where they stop to have a group conversation, and force all the other pedestrians to step into the bike lane. As I was approaching it this afternoon, sure enough a woman did just that, causing a polite young man on a bike to yell "Watch it, idiot!" at her.
View attachment 662477

Frankly Toronto needs more of this not less.

Arguments of efficient use of space for maximum throughput is what has made this city so ugly in the first place.

Go to Paris or CDMX or Amsterdam and you will be consistently slowed down and squeezed as you walk the sidewalks. Maybe some find it annoying, but I will take this over a vast open streetscape any day.

 

[Northern Light]

Frankly Toronto needs more of this not less.

Arguments of efficient use of space for maximum throughput is what has made this city so ugly in the first place.

Go to Paris or CDMX or Amsterdam and you will be consistently slowed down and squeezed as you walk the sidewalks. Maybe some find it annoying, but I will take this over a vast open streetscape any day.

I'll split the difference here, I'm sympathetic to your position, I liked the visual of fruit stands or small, informal patios, it does add character.

But, we can't be ignorant of the imposition for those using mobility aids, scooters, wheelchairs, walkers, or those who are legally blind, using a cane or a seeing-eye dog to navigate.

Some level of clear sidewalk passage must be maintained. In theory, this is decided, as the City's standard is 2.1m, to allow for pedestrians passing in opposite directions.

I wouldn't be an absolute stickler over it, but it is something to be mindful of....

 

[junctionist]

Frankly Toronto needs more of this not less.

Arguments of efficient use of space for maximum throughput is what has made this city so ugly in the first place.

Go to Paris or CDMX or Amsterdam and you will be consistently slowed down and squeezed as you walk the sidewalks. Maybe some find it annoying, but I will take this over a vast open streetscape any day.

While these narrow sidewalks can have their charm, they can also be uncomfortable when crowded. They can be uncomfortable or awkward when walking and talking with more than one person, when pushing a stroller, or when in a wheelchair. Narrow sidewalks are sadly the default public space of the older parts of the city with commercial activity with few alternatives.

I feel that Toronto has more than enough busy commercial areas with overly narrow sidewalks. The city needs more vibrant and beautiful public spaces in commercial areas that are more comfortably proportioned from a pedestrian standpoint. La Rambla in Barcelona has plenty more pedestrian space without feeling unpleasant. The same can be said about the likes of Krakow's famous Main Market Square. It's hard to find analogues in the city to such spaces, despite the fact that downtown Toronto was built around pedestrians and predates cars, bikes, and streetcars.