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I am a firm believer that the Toronto station needs to be in the downtown core. I recently just booked a VIA trip from Toronto to Montreal and one of the strongest considerations was where the terminal was in Montreal - right smack in the middle of Old Montreal.
I don't think there's much disagreement with the service going into Union station. As you say, it's obvious.

Though I'd hardly say that Central Station in Montreal was right-smack in the middle of Old Montreal. At the most generous it's on the northern periphery. But it's where it should be - closer to the business centre than Old Montreal. And I don't think Viger Station would have been a better choice.

Also, Toronto only needs one stop unless we have plans to actually build out the areas where other Toronto stations would be located. There's really no reason to follow the GO model and build stations in the middle of a car park.
I disagree. There's no reason not to have an intermodal suburban station - even if not all trains stop there. Though they are challenged to find a good location unless HST use the Kingston Subdivision.
 
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I disagree. There's no reason not to have an intermodal suburban station - even if not all trains stop there. Though they are challenged to find a good location unless HST use the Kingston Subdivision.

I agree. A stop in Scarborough linked to one of the subway extensions and a bus terminal would save a lot of passengers time. Folks in Ottawa are going to think Fallowfield is important, and why is Air Canada involved if there's no stop in Dorval? And I think eventually they may end up (a few years in, not day one) with differing services catering to different cities.
 
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Great discussion! All I want to say is that with recent zoning reform any rail station is a goldmine so even if the high speed service doesn’t materialize the buildings will.
 
I agree. A stop in Scarborough linked to one of the subway extensions and a bus terminal would save a lot of passengers time. Folks in Ottawa are going to think Fallowfield is important, and why is Air Canada involved if there's no stop in Dorval? And I think eventually they may end up (a few years in, not day one) with differing services catering to different cities.
I wonder if once the planning stage is done, we will see more stations added, or at least set aside for future building.
 
I wonder how boardings at Guildwood today compare to Oshawa - that may be instructive. Even if the Kennedy route is chosen, I would not stop there - a better stop would be out around Cousins/407, so that the entire Markham/Vaughan/Thornhill/Scarborough catchment is oovered (assuming some extension of local transit, of course).
I definitely agree that a station there would be far more valuable than a station at Kennedy - my follow up question though would be to ask if a station at Locust Hill as you suggest would be valuable, or would it be better to place it at Sheppard-McCowan for the connection to 2 subway lines. The former would definitely be relegated as a car oriented station that gets its riders from Park and Ride/Kiss and Ride users, with a smaller amount of Viva Purple and *maybe* 407 Transitway/whatever they build there riders. If the latter happens, great. If not... eh?
 
This meeting is coming up. Registration link: https://www.icastpro.ca/events/alto/y9zvjs/2025/08/28/alto-2025-annual-public-meeting

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I do realize this post is quite old but as I haven't had logged into UT for a while I thought I'd respond now.
May I ask you how many future stations you envision along the Don Branch?
On the Don Branch itself? Not really any - other than maybe Danforth.
The issue is more for north and south of that. At S-Bahn stop spacing you would probably stop at Gerrard, East Harbour-ish, and Sherbourne at least, and north of that somewhere in Thorncliffe and at Eglinton. That's not to mention that any sort of Midtown line which would use that corridor and stop frequently. With that, HSR using that route is clearly untenable.
Again, how many future station stops do you envision between Union Station and the Belleville sub? If we assume EMUs with 3 stops at Kennedy, Scarborough and East Harbour (and reasonably fast track speeds east of East Harbour), then their superior acceleration and much shorter dwell times should mostly compensate for the 2 additional stops compared to an ALTO train stopping at Kennedy only.
I said in my original post 4-5 additional infill stations? With 5-10 minute frequencies? Even that would be wider stop spacing than a typical S-Bahn, to allow for higher average speeds (in light of Toronto being a geographically large sprawling city). If you want specifics something like Sherbourne, East Harbour, Coxwell, Main/Danforth, Warden, Scarborough Jct, Kennedy, Lawrence, Ellesmere would seem reasonable by S-Bahn standards. Even if these stops are not envisioned presently, putting HSR on any corridor which cannot fit express tracks is precluding or significantly complicating any future attempts to achieve S-Bahn-like service standards.

I’m somehow skeptical of a third and fourth track between Guildwood and Pickering.
As other posters have responded to this I won't repeat them.

I guess this is where European (satellite stations should serve secondary hubs which are served by high-quality transit corridors preferably not already serving the main hub to ease access by transit) and North American intercity rail service planning ideology (satellite stations should be placed next to a busy Highways with giant parking facilities, to ease access by car) clash. You won’t overcome car-centricism by pre-emptively obbeying to anticipated car-centric demands.
This seems like a ridiculous statement to make when my entire original post was about how to route HSR to accommodate S-Bahn levels of regional rail service as opposed to what now appears to be the current plan of GO service continuing to skip past central parts of Toronto without stopping and with frequencies only somewhat better than the Long Island Rail Road.

Car access to Pickering is obviously a side note to the broader point that Pickering is much more accessible to people in Durham and to some extent York (via transit or via car). Stopping in Durham Region has much less to do with "North American intercity rail service planning ideology" and far more to do with the fact that by the time anything resembling HSR is built over 1 million people will live in Durham Region. And Pickering station, other than being car accessible, is *also* one of if not the most transit accessible locations in Durham Region, and will soon densify in a similar way to MCC and VMC. If Nauen (~15km west of Spandau, ~30km west of Berlin, a similar distance as Pickering) was a region with 1 million people or even 500,000, there would obviously be an ICE stop on the Berlin-Hamburg and/or Berlin-Hannover lines there, just as places like Wuppertal or Bochum are served by ICEs (both of which are similar in population to just Western Durham). Finally, nothing about stopping in Pickering precludes stopping in Scarborough as well (either stopping at both, or alternating between them), only that Scarborough Junction is a somewhat worse Scarborough station than Kennedy (something which I also mentioned in my original post, but something that can be mitigated with infill stations and better service on the Stouffville line).

As a side note, the threat that “they will just drive to the Airport if you don’t stop close enough to them” is much less credible in Durham than, say, York, Peel or Halton…
Yes, that's why I said York and Durham. Besides, it's also quite competitive to just directly drive to Ottawa or Montreal from Durham Region.
 

This is the 2nd time we have heard about this bid being much lower than previously thought
i guarantee they are banking on extras, scope creep and change orders to bolster their bid.
they undercut everyone just to get the jobs and will now find every excuse to run the bill up.
thats why i am hugely sceptical of a direct competitor business and a corrupt engineering firm winning this bid.
 
The consortium gets operation too right? I imagine that unless the contract is written tightly in regards to the operation then I could see them banking on making more money from that than the construction phase (or at least, making up for the underbid).
 
It's Caisse - look at how they are delivering REM.

they can do it cheap because they do the design internally and don't overspec everything to the millionth degree like public-led procurement does. REM works and has been done cheap because it was designed specifically to keep it low cost. Re-use existing infrastructure, and when it needs new infrastructure, do it the cheapest way possible (i.e. minimal tunnels, small station sizes, etc.).

If Alto / the Feds keep the delivery mandate to simply getting trains from Toronto to Quebec in specified timeframes, Caisse can make the design decisions needed to do that actually affordably
 
This is the 2nd time we have heard about this bid being much lower than previously thought
Hopefully the "low-cost" isn't reflected in the quality of the product.

i guarantee they are banking on extras, scope creep and change orders to bolster their bid.
they undercut everyone just to get the jobs and will now find every excuse to run the bill up.
thats why i am hugely sceptical of a direct competitor business and a corrupt engineering firm winning this bid.
That's somewhat implied in the article:
“But what also can happen is that’s sort of an initial financial offering, and then the prices start going up, either before a contract is signed or as the project is going along,” Siemiatycki said. “Over time, it starts to look much more like what some of the higher bid prices were.”
 
CPDQ may also be able to finance at better weight. They are a big pension fund with a long term vision.
 

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