[nfitz]

You would think by now, they would have the answer that Union and Central will or will not be used,regardless of which language it was asked in.

I've heard a rumour that they'll be embarking on a multi-year, multi-billion, project to finalize the route.

So while you might think they'd know. There's a lot more to it than that. Toronto is easy - there's a direct way to get from Union to Agincourt. Montreal is not easy, and never had a union station. The most direct tracks into downtown go to Lucien L'allier station, not Central station - and it's those (CP) tracks that their mapping seems to imply be used. And then no matter what station you use, to get to Quebec City, you either have to reverse the trains back west, most of the way to Dorval - or build a new tunnel under the mountain.

 

[micheal_can]

I've heard a rumour that they'll be embarking on a multi-year, multi-billion, project to finalize the route.

So while you might think they'd know. There's a lot more to it than that. Toronto is easy - there's a direct way to get from Union to Agincourt. Montreal is not easy, and never had a union station. The most direct tracks into downtown go to Lucien L'allier station, not Central station - and it's those (CP) tracks that their mapping seems to imply be used. And then no matter what station you use, to get to Quebec City, you either have to reverse the trains back west, most of the way to Dorval - or build a new tunnel under the mountain.

I get your argument for Montreal.
But Toronto? Is there another existing multi modal station that would be in the running for the terminal for the first HSR in Canada? Sure there are lots of places a new station could go, but does that make it the best place?
Even with Montreal, I get it, but I also don't agree..

I guess my thinking is the communication should have included the existing stations until a decision was made to justify it.

 

[Thaboss]

And yet the Liberal governments, as slow and backtracking as they've been, have been far more active on this file than other parties. This is a clear sign that PM Carney is on board - unlike with VIA Fast under the Chretien (Liberal) government that Martin (Liberal) killed as fast as he could when he became PM.

I think this is 100 percent correct. If you listend to carney presser yesterday, he mentioned rail connections, alto, and red tape several times.

With respect to alto, unprompted carney explicitly mentioned that he'll be following its progress closely.

I think, save for some unexpecte crazyness i think a carney PM will see the project starting within 4 years

 

[416InTrouble]

Why is anyone taking about Summerhill? Union is obviously the only practical main hub in Toronto.

I don’t think it can get thru Leslieville which is currently under construction for the next 8 years with the elevated Ontario and GO line rebuild. There’s no room for HRT thru the current ViA corridor that crosses thru Leslieville

 

[416InTrouble]

The Star article mentions:

View attachment 638630

Which is all a little odd and ambiguous. Union is at the bottom of the centre I suppose. If you try to find the geographic centre of the city, you end up somewhere around Sunnybrook Hospital, and if you draw a circle around that it would include much of the midtown corridor, Yonge/Eglinton, and the top of the Ontario Line. But that's clearly not downtown. The existing lines running into Union are the only path into downtown. Or are they? This is the more or less official map of downtown Toronto.

View attachment 638631

The midtown line and Yonge form the boundary in the top right corner. The old station (LCBO) is technically across the street from "downtown" and platforms there or at Dupont would partly/sort of be on the edge. I suppose it is a possibility. That "somewhere" is the strangest word in the article. Could they be thinking of putting a station somewhere on one of the corridors where a station has never been, or even creating some sort of spur to a new location? It seems like that would be an awful lot of money and trouble when Union is sitting there. "Seamless" means it has to connect to other modes, such as GO and the subway system.

I think the plan must be "Union if at all possible." GO could be the obstacle but we may be moving into an era of better intergovernmental cooperation so who knows? I'd like to see Ontario and ALTO jointly move on the "missing link" and taking over the midtown corridor for passenger rail.

I really can’t see it getting thru Leslieville which is being redeveloped as we speak for the OL/GO elevated portions from Pape thru to Corktown… the New East Harbour stop would be ideal but I don’t think it can cross thru the new elevated portions that Mx is presently building thru Leslieville

 

[T3G]

I don’t think it can get thru Leslieville which is currently under construction for the next 8 years with the elevated Ontario and GO line rebuild. There’s no room for HRT thru the current ViA corridor that crosses thru Leslieville

Then they'll wait until it's not (provided the project actually manages to start). Running an HSR service away from Union makes about as much sense as opening the Crosstown without Eglinton station.

 

[nfitz]

I don’t think it can get thru Leslieville which is currently under construction for the next 8 years with the elevated Ontario and GO line rebuild. There’s no room for HRT thru the current ViA corridor that crosses thru Leslieville

This was my main complaint with changing the Ontario Line alignment to go down the rail corridor instead of up Carlaw. The rail corridor is wide enough for 6 tracks, but now there's no room for expansion. So HSR VIA trains would have to share track with GO Express trains, at least as far as Scarborough station.

However, with the decision to cancel the grade seperation at Scarborough junction, and the lack of space for more tracks along the Stouffville line, it's pretty clear that they have chosen to use Metrolinx's unused Don Branch to connect to the CP's mainline, west of Laird.

In the long-term, it could be interesting to see what opportunity (if any) this might make for high-speed premium commuter services towards Peterborough, Richmond Hill, and even North Oshawa. (I wonder how the timing would compare to the existing Pickering GO, using the CN York sub, and a new junction between the York sub and the CP Belleville Sub.

 

[whatever]

I see the appeal to Union... but I'd also think a Pearson connection makes sense. It would spread the traffic away from the already jammed corridors in/out of Union, it would offer better regional connectivity, it would further cement the transit hub around Pearson, and I could even see it being a boon to int(-er/-ra)national travelers who could fly into Pearson and then hop the HSR to points onward

 

[micheal_can]

I see the appeal to Union... but I'd also think a Pearson connection makes sense. It would spread the traffic away from the already jammed corridors in/out of Union, it would offer better regional connectivity, it would further cement the transit hub around Pearson, and I could even see it being a boon to int(-er/-ra)national travelers who could fly into Pearson and then hop the HSR to points onward

What if Union wasa station on the route,but the extended it to Pearson? Would that make sense? Would that be scope creep?

 

[whatever]

I don't see value in hitting both. Upgrade the connectivity between them, sure, but do we really need HSR between Union and Pearson?

But Pearson via the midtown corridor, that seems like it avoids many of the issues with getting HSR into Union, while also ticking an awful lot of boxes for what HSR needs to succeed. And if you could bundle some of the infrastructure for a midtown GO line with that, now you're really talking

 

[micheal_can]

I don't see value in hitting both. Upgrade the connectivity between them, sure, but do we really need HSR between Union and Pearson?

But Pearson via the midtown corridor, that seems like it avoids many of the issues with getting HSR into Union, while also ticking an awful lot of boxes for what HSR needs to succeed. And if you could bundle some of the infrastructure for a midtown GO line with that, now you're really talking

Right now, along the Midtown Corridor,where is there a GO station serving multiple lines?

 

[Urban Sky]

However, with the decision to cancel the grade seperation at Scarborough junction, and the lack of space for more tracks along the Stouffville line, it's pretty clear that they have chosen to use Metrolinx's unused Don Branch to connect to the CP's mainline, west of Laird.

As someone who makes a living with analyzing train movements and calculating line/track capacities, I’m puzzled as to where the problem lies with 150 km/h fast GO Express trains operating non-stop to Scarborough Junction (and beyond) sharing tracks with intercity trains which would do the same at the same speeds. It would be much more ridiculous to reserve tracks on such a busy corridor for a rail service which won’t operate with more than 2 trains per hour and direction for the foreseeable future…

 

[Adjei]

I don't see value in hitting both. Upgrade the connectivity between them, sure, but do we really need HSR between Union and Pearson?

But Pearson via the midtown corridor, that seems like it avoids many of the issues with getting HSR into Union, while also ticking an awful lot of boxes for what HSR needs to succeed. And if you could bundle some of the infrastructure for a midtown GO line with that, now you're really talking

It does make sense to hit both Union station and Pearson if the plan is to extend the high speed rail to London and then eventually Windsor. The cancelled Ontario high speed rail line proposed by Kathleen Wynne had stations at Union, Pearson, Guelph, Kitchener, London, Chatham, and Windsor.

 

[Urban Sky]

I don't see value in hitting both. Upgrade the connectivity between them, sure, but do we really need HSR between Union and Pearson?

Obviously, nobody needs HSR to travel between Union and Pearson. However, if you want to be competitive for business travel against the plane, you absolutely must serve Union, whereas if you want airlines to code-share with your trains, you absolutely have to serve Pearson, so this is why you need to serve both.

But Pearson via the midtown corridor, that seems like it avoids many of the issues with getting HSR into Union, while also ticking an awful lot of boxes for what HSR needs to succeed. And if you could bundle some of the infrastructure for a midtown GO line with that, now you're really talking

How much longer do we have to discuss these brainfarts about HSR skipping Union? Just like with the Ottawa Bypass, whichever investor comits the necessary billions to fund such a commercial non-starter would never be given the chance to fund a project again…

 

[416InTrouble]

This was my main complaint with changing the Ontario Line alignment to go down the rail corridor instead of up Carlaw. The rail corridor is wide enough for 6 tracks, but now there's no room for expansion. So HSR VIA trains would have to share track with GO Express trains, at least as far as Scarborough station.

However, with the decision to cancel the grade seperation at Scarborough junction, and the lack of space for more tracks along the Stouffville line, it's pretty clear that they have chosen to use Metrolinx's unused Don Branch to connect to the CP's mainline, west of Laird.

In the long-term, it could be interesting to see what opportunity (if any) this might make for high-speed premium commuter services towards Peterborough, Richmond Hill, and even North Oshawa. (I wonder how the timing would compare to the existing Pickering GO, using the CN York sub, and a new junction between the York sub and the CP Belleville Sub.

Exactly this. Also its super refreshing to have someone who knows what they’re talking about on here. Cheers