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nfitz said:
You also don't seem to understand that salary is controlled by the Market. They have a lot of turnover and can't maintain a high enough workforce at the current wages - and you suggest that it's too high?
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I would hardly call the TTC salary "Market" oriented. The entire premise of CBA, pre arranged salaries for a collective organization, is by definition anti-market.

Looking across similar professions (i.e. trucking, commercial busses, cabs, ect...), wages are almost always lower than TTC levels and are usually harder jobs. Hell, pilots earn less than some TTC drivers.

High turnover can be related to a wide range of factors, including unions which actively discourage new employment in favor of seniority. Like the ATU....
 
Yep. Whoaccio is right. Air Canada RJ co-pilots who are unionized make less than most TTC operators.
 
nfitz said:
You also don't seem to understand that salary is controlled by the Market. They have a lot of turnover and can't maintain a high enough workforce at the current wages - and you suggest that it's too high?
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Market? You mean supply and demand? There's a lot of supply out there. If you increase supply your demand would lower. The union keeps the supply short by not hiring more people. It's not the people who don't want to do it. They aren't hired because the number of staff is controlled. The only people who should be earning the 100k would be professionals like doctors, high level management, etc which require specialized skills. The good ones are harder to find and market demand is high. I don't think it takes years of education or difficult specialized skills to do what TTC does. Not all IT workers (which requires more skills) get as much as they do. The companies would just outsource if the wage gets too high.

The average salary is 40k. Being paid is more than 60k is over the average. That's not working class. That's getting up there with the elite especially if you're getting over 100k. If you ask those making under 25k if they want to get paid 40-50k and not get paid OT but work long hours without benefits. I'm sure they would even agree as long as they get out of that low income bracket.
 
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Let's not lump all TTC workers into one bunch. There are a number of skilled jobs at the TTC, including engineers and IT workers. Whose to say what kind of salary these people deserve?

My gut says the same is true for drivers. And I have heard that there's been difficulty filling driver positions in recent years - it's a difficult job with odd hours and regular harassment from passengers. (There's a good Q&A thread with a streetcar driver on Spadina here)

I'm no fan of the transit union - the ticket taker thing IS ridiculous - but I doubt salaries would decline much if you killed the union tomorrow.
 
GraphicMatt said:
My gut says the same is true for drivers. And I have heard that there's been difficulty filling driver positions in recent years - it's a difficult job with odd hours and regular harassment from passengers. (There's a good Q&A thread with a streetcar driver on Spadina
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It would be interesting to see statistics for how many people apply for driver positions and how many actually get hired. (I would think most get hired from connections). Many jobs are difficult. Even call centres who have to deal with customer complaints all day long or even airlines jobs. Even the menial customer service jobs like working at movie theatres or sports arenas. As long as its a job that deals with people, chances are high there will be harassment. If you have an office job, you could also get harassments from other co-workers or superiors. Every job has their pressures. Especially if it's a competitive job, people may even get back stabbed.
 
The problem is that they use their older or injured personnel to work as fare collectors. What's needed instead is automated fare collection and actual trained customer service reps at a few key locations. That's how its done in most of the rest of the developed world.
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Toronto isn't in the developed world, when it comes to transit.

While I agree that being a TTC operator is probably not the greatest job, (idiot customers, dealing with rude passengers and or being harassed, possibly even injured) the pay sounds awfully attractive, especially when I know I have the possibility of pulling in an extra 50% -150% in salary due to overtime. While I agree that people should be fairly compensated for their work, which is not the case for many of us, this shows that the system is sick and needs to be corrected.

The TTC has absolutely no idea what customer service is or what it entails. Maybe Air Canada offered to give the TTC Customer Service advice/courses and this is the result. IT is downright brutal.

p5
 
The reason why no one cares that the Go Transit people makes money is that sure their trains are delayed but you get customer service...

TTC is a different story...
 
nfitz said:
.. uh sure, supply and demand ... stop being anal, you know exactly what I mean.
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The only way you could really assess supply and demand for transit operators is to get rid of the union and then see what the retention rates are. I suspect that the TTC could impose a 5 year wage freeze on its operators (not its more skilled staff) and would not see any significant retention problems at all. Where would these guys go? Their only other options are other lower paying transit agencies or part-time work as a school bus driver.
 
kEiThZ said:
The only way you could really assess supply and demand for transit operators is to get rid of the union and then see what the retention rates are.
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uh-huh ... or you could just detonate a nuclear weapon at City Hall ...
 
I think the 905 systems have difficulty finding new drivers as well. Driving a 40-60 foot bus not exactly the same as driving a 16 foot car, and there is more to the job than just driving as well.

So I am not going to complain about TTC workers pay, although I think it is crazy that in the new contract the TTC guarantees a higher salary than the other systems...
 
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