UtakataNoAnnex
Superstar
...thank you for that! /bows
ear2ear
New Member
For what it's worth, as a resident of that stretch of Dundas I prefer the backlogged traffic to the on-ramp-like behaviour that drivers previously applied as soon as the passed Sackville. The amount of cars I've personally witnessed gliding through solid red lights was so dangerous. The congestion has been a net gain for pedestrian safety. I just wish the streetcars could pass through unimpeded and removing the DVP ramp would allow that.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Agreed. That whole stretch feels so much safer these days.
Toronto Rocks
Active Member
Think about all the eastbound streetcars on Dundas East being stuck behind a car try to turn left onto the DVP?
Or all the westbound streetcars also stuck behind westbound cars trying to merge onto the lower DVP.
If the Eastern Ave DVP onramp is completely removed (and not replaced) then the gridlock on Dundas East and the entire lower eastside grid will only intesify for streetcars, autos and cyclists in that area.
Waterfront Toronto and the City of Toronto would likely not remove access to the DVP without a plan to redirect traffic.
mburrrrr
Senior Member
The Eastern Ave. on ramp to the NB DVP is closed April 24-26, if I read the electronic road sign correctly today.
The EB Jarvis on ramp is still closed. Left hand turns onto the NB DVP at Lake Shore are not allowed.
That should make a mess of Queen and Dundas for the next few days.
Hopefully the Lake Shore bridges over the Don river are completed soon and left hand NB turns onto the DVP are allowed again.
The EB Bay on ramp is to be closed someday in the future. Hopefully that is planned thoughtfully and not due to an emergency repair. That ramp section looks ugly.
The EB Jarvis on ramp is still closed. Left hand turns onto the NB DVP at Lake Shore are not allowed.
That should make a mess of Queen and Dundas for the next few days.
Hopefully the Lake Shore bridges over the Don river are completed soon and left hand NB turns onto the DVP are allowed again.
The EB Bay on ramp is to be closed someday in the future. Hopefully that is planned thoughtfully and not due to an emergency repair. That ramp section looks ugly.
hawc
Senior Member
ear2ear
New Member
To be clear, I'm advocating for the permanent removal of Dundas on-ramp. Ongoing access to the highway from Eastern Ave makes sense to me.
hawc
Senior Member
Congestion is the goal. It discourages driving.
porto
New Member
That makes zero sense. Congestion is caused by too much driving. That effectively reads as "Too much driving is the goal. It discourages driving". The goal should be to reduce dependency on personal automobiles by reducing parking (first and foremost) and then shifting our right-of-way hierarchy in our public realm by moving cars to the bottom of the list. Then we can re-design our public realm to encourage mobility by transit, walking, & active transportation options (in that hierarchical order imo). Any pursuit to fix congestion by prioritizing the car, can only be successful if we raze our city to accommodate the additional lanes, parking & infrastructure necessary. And at that point yes you've solved congestion, but at what price? Once we accept that cars take up too much space to be a sustainable form of primary mobility (in large population centres) then we can move on to actual solutions. Until then we'll be stuck in traffic and nobody wins.
reinventingthewheel
Active Member
It’s sensible to me. It’s the opposite of induced demand; induced congestion. Make the driving experience so hellish that people give up driving.
UtakataNoAnnex
Superstar
Yeah, well I think it's safe to say that most folks would want best of both worlds here...
...not to mention that congestion usually involves lots of cars...so that's not really keeping them away. Just saying.
...not to mention that congestion usually involves lots of cars...so that's not really keeping them away. Just saying.
bearcat
Active Member
Exactly.
The whole point of all the road changes these last 10 years - bike lanes, lower speed limits, caféTO on the street, increased parking fees etc, etc is to make driving so miserable, so congested, so slow, so frustrating that people just go "Ah..... screw it...."
But not me!
I'll drive no matter what you crazies do!
You'll never get me out of my PERSONAL transportation.
Perhaps maybe the primary goal for cycling infrastructure & lower speed limits may be to make things BETTER (safer, faster) for people cycling and walking? And the primary goal.of CaféTO is to make things BETTER for business by giving them room to serve more customers? The fact that making things BETTER for others makes things coincidently WORSE for those who drive, just shows how much of our city is dedicated to cars. Cars have their place in the city, but there needs to be a balance.
UtakataNoAnnex
Superstar
No one has ever really said anything about getting rid of cars altogether in this city...
...there maybe someone out on the fringes making that a crusade? While they may have my sympathy, I don't think it would ever be practical. So a balance is needed, indeed.
...there maybe someone out on the fringes making that a crusade? While they may have my sympathy, I don't think it would ever be practical. So a balance is needed, indeed.
porto
New Member
Listen, if you truly think having safe cycling options, or safer roads, or patios, are some sort of scheme to make drivers miserable then I don't know what to tell ya. You're obviously subscribed to your conspiracy and you're welcome to continue to believe that. But at the end of the day, the city will only keep adding more residents, and physical space literally does not allow for us to keep adding more cars or prioritizing cars in our very limited public right of ways. Not to say cars don't have a place, they're still a very efficient way to travel outside of the city and within for occasional circumstances. But for the most part, a city like Toronto needs to place cars at the bottom of the list when it comes to prioritization in our transportation plans and public realms, because it is one of the least efficient ways to travel within major cities. You can ignore that all you want, but it'll be your time you're wasting sitting in traffic, not mine.Exactly.
The whole point of all the road changes these last 10 years - bike lanes, lower speed limits, caféTO on the street, increased parking fees etc, etc is to make driving so miserable, so congested, so slow, so frustrating that people just go "Ah..... screw it...."
But not me!
I'll drive no matter what you crazies do!
You'll never get me out of my PERSONAL transportation.
Mariner35
New Member
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